Striking back in relationships, (no not physically obviously)

SetWave said:
You took the words right out of my mouth. Could not agree more. (y)
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No matter whether it is childish or not, try putting up with being shunned for twenty five years, then false acknowledgements or token recognition to mislead you, I doubt the Dalai Lama himself would remain a peacemaker, (okay maybe not him, I'm just being childish again :) ).
By suggesting its time to strike back I believe its maybe the only logical response, "when all else fails, or is bound to fail", but go ahead and criticise, " we all think we know better what other people should do in their private lives very often",(and that in a sense is the nub of the problem! :( ).
 
SetWave said:
We can be better than that.
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We can yes, but live my life, (or "walk in my shoes for a day" as they say), and you may understand things a little differently.

I've witnessed so many decent parents and grandparents being treated badly, very badly, I've read and believe understood the views of experts dissenting from the family law policies predominating in western societies, (Professor Akira Morita being one), that I would argue "you can be better than" being another person promoting the same policies causing the oppression of those decent parents, but I'm not expecting you to! :(
 
I have walked many a rotten mile within and without my own shoes to have learned to let things go. Just walk away and keep walking.
 
SetWave said:
I have walked many a rotten mile within and without my own shoes to have learned to let things go. Just walk away and keep walking.
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We've both walked a few rotten miles then, BUT, (there's always a "but"), not in each others shoes have we(?) :)
Its not necessary for everyone to learn to respond in a similar fashion to the one we've preferred and some people I respect have chosen not to move on when others have urged them to do so in their lives, or private lives, " regardless"! :)
 
Call it what you will. It is simply the correct way to deal with bullies who are just scared, insecure cowards.

"And if they stare
Just let them burn their eyes
On you moving.
And if they shout
Don't let it change a thing
That you're doing.
Hold your head up, oh
Hold your head up, oh
Hold your head up, oh
Hold your head high."
 
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grahamg said:
I think there is a lot in what you say, and striking back may do as you say. Some fathers do nonetheless choose to shun those who have shunned them, and I'd say its unfortunate, but in the situation I've faced and not done till now, (twenty five years on from being forced out and failed due to lack of support), maybe I'm the fool(?).
Some do manage to act as you suggest I'd guess, (in fact I've met those who have come through the family law system, overcome the difficulties etc., and some even attended meetings and protests about family law with their now grown up children they've got together with again).
However the role of parent you're putting forward isn't the "loving role" some of us choose for ourselves and our child, even should it be doomed to fail if not supported by those in authority, and "social norms" mean your freedom to behave as you see fit isn't supported either, (I accept those doing as you suggest may be loving in their own way though).
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I don't think you understood my post.

I quoted what you wrote

Wanting to strike back sounds to me like you may be the root cause of the hostility you post about your daughter 's attitude towards you.
 
Knight said:
I don't think you understood my post.
I quoted what you wrote
Wanting to strike back sounds to me like you may be the root cause of the hostility you post about your daughter 's attitude towards you.
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No I'm not, though even if I were I would still demand to be the kind of parent I believe I should be, (once again refer to the last placard I posted about a parent having failed if your child hasn't told you "they hate you" at least once!).
Apologies for not interpreting your post as the criticism you wished to impart, and of course putting forth ones own life story in any way on any forum is setting yourself up to be pilloried or "trolled".
Never mind, for those so wedded to the idea everyone should "move on" in whatever situation life has thrown at them, I want to point out twenty five years of essentially putting up with being shunned, trying to be tolerant and understand my child, I'm now "moving on" to at least a different approach by suggesting I might shun her back, should the opportunity arise! :)
 
Life is short.
We’re living our second half of it, or maybe our last quarter.
Our children are only on loan to us.
Each person in our relationship at any juncture of our life is only temporary.
They can leave us in many ways; by divorce, disown, death...
We gave our all, our best because at that point of time, that was correct to us. We would not feel comfortable doing it any other way. So we need to realize that it was our choice to give... and give...
I may be wrong, perhaps you’re thinking “what do I get after all I’ve done...”
Nothing.
We cannot expect anything in return. Technically.
We chose to give.
They can choose not to give.
There may be laws governing that, but even if they gave because it’s lawful, I believe the heart is unhappy.
The life, starting today...
Do I want to be happy?
What is my baggage?
Is it possible to discard?
What can I do by myself, for myself to achieve a happy state of mind?

If you can’t walk away physically..
You can do that in your mind, create a distance...
You need to have the courage to let it go, it’s for your own good. No one can help remove your baggage.
We can only suggest...

Peace
 
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Zone said:
Life is short.
We’re living our second half of it, or maybe our last quarter.
Our children are only on loan to us.
Each person in our relationship at any juncture of our life is only temporary.
They can leave us in many ways; by divorce, disown, death...
We gave our all, our best because at that point of time, that was correct to us. We would not feel comfortable doing it any other way. So we need to realize that it was our choice to give... and give...
I may be wrong, perhaps you’re thinking “what do I get after all I’ve done...”
Nothing.
We cannot expect anything in return. Technically speaking.
We chose to give.
They can choose not to give.
There may be laws governing that, but even if they gave because it’s lawful, I believe the heart is unhappy.
The life, starting today...
Do I want to be happy?
What is my baggage?
Is it possible to discard?
What can I do by myself, for myself to achieve a happy state of mind?
If you can’t walk away physically..
You can do that in your mind, create a distance...
You need to have the courage to let it go, it’s for your own good. No one can help remove your baggage.
We can only suggest..., Love
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I do appreciate your post and your thinking to, and having said that, (whilst disagreeing obviously in some ways, I think it is churlish to complain when you've laid out what is in your heart), I must just say you cannot say "NO" to your heredity completely, the DNA you've had passed to you by both your parents, and as is known by those who study these things, the recessive genes only finding expression in your grandparents may come to the fore in the child. Without getting too deep, inheritable diseases cannot be denied simply because someone asserts, "I'm not your child", or "You're not my real father", (two statements my daughter never made btw, and she still uses her maiden name in her professional life, which I assume means she has some pride in it!).
Still, thank you for your thoughts and the trouble you've taken in posting them. :)
 
The aims of the fathers rights movement groups:

http://www.separateddads.co.uk/what...text=Its aim is to keep,and a great deal more.

Quote:
"....., men can seem left out in the cold. If they feel a sense of injustice in the way the courts have treated them, over access or other issues, they might feel quite isolated.

But there are a number of different groups that work on behalf of men. In most instances they’ve been formed by men themselves from a sense of outrage. Some – for better or worse – have received a fair amount of media coverage, but most operate largely under the radar of publicity.

They do share a lot of common goals, especially fighting for the rights of fathers, which some of them believe have been trampled by the rights of mothers, and that fathers often never receive a fair deal in court."

(there are a whole lot of heartrending stories to be found at the bottom of the page showing just how those going through our UK family law system are suffering too)
 
grahamg said:
I want to point out twenty five years of essentially putting up with being shunned, trying to be tolerant and understand my child, I'm now "moving on" to at least a different approach by suggesting I might shun her back, should the opportunity arise! :)
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Do your daughter a favor, if you're able. Shun her back. She either needs the rest or hasn't noticed.
 
Bob Geldof's views, quote:
"Relatively recently, Bob Geldof, organiser of the Live Aid and the Live 8 projects, has become involved in the British fathers' rights movement. Geldof claims to be an iconoclast, calling his arguments rants which express his feelings towards British family law, as well as towards issues of a more personal matter.

Bob Geldof, and others, argue that without substantial changes, the application of current British custody law will lead to a generation of feral children. Geldof has written:

The law must know it is contributing to the problem. It is creating vast wells of misery, massive discontent, an unstable society of feral children and reckless adolescents who have no understanding of authority or ultimate sanction, no knowledge of a man’s love and how it is different but equal to a woman’s, irresponsible mothers, drifting, hopeless fathers, problem and violent ill-educated sons and daughters, a disconnect from the extended family and society at large, vast swathes of cynicism and repeat pattern behaviour in subsequent adult relationships.
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Fathers' rights campaigners question the assumption that it can ever be legitimate for the state to collude in disrupting a loving and natural relationship between a father and his children. Bob Geldof has written evocatively on this subject:

I cannot even say the words. A huge emptiness would well in my stomach, a deep loathing for those who would deign to tell me they would ALLOW me ACCESS to my children — those I loved above all, those I created, those who gave meaning to everything I did, those that were the very best of us two and the absolute physical manifestation of our once blinding love. Who the f**k are they that they should ALLOW anything? REASONABLE CONTACT!!! Is the law mad? Am I a criminal? An ABSENT parent. A RESIDENT/NON-RESIDENT parent. This Lawspeak which you all speak so fluently, so unthinkingly, so hurtfully, must go.
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grahamg said:
See Bob Geldof's views just posted to give your some idea "mate", (you wont believe who used to call me "mate", the man my ex ran off with, "are you related perhaps"?). :)
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Is the man Aussie? Over here we call both male and female "mate" if we know them well and I feel I know you oh so well ;)
 
Pepper said:
Do your daughter a favor, if you're able. Shun her back. She either needs the rest or hasn't noticed.
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Thanks for the advice, whatever would I do without people who know absolutely nothing pitching in with their pithy comments!!

In my mind the predilection for assuming fathers/parents must have done something "wrong", makes my case the law needs to include a presumption in favour of contact for decent parents.

Just to boast for a while, so you get where I'm coming from without any room for doubt, my daughter is someone any father would be proud of their part in bring her into this world, and assisting her over all the years of contact I fought for, and whatever row you wish to fuel, or any others wish to fuel, or blame upon me, means nothing. In reality the row is between my daughter up to the age of twelve, when no matter how many times she said she hated me, she quickly added, "Keep coming daddy", till it came to the point whereby at the end of a fairly normal contact visit, (with her mother unusually waiting in front of her house for our child to return, as a reminder of what our daughter should be saying to stop any contact I believe), and my daughter thereafter when my daughter has shunned me, if you see what I mean(?).

I am here to stir things up, and if you bother to read the comments of all those fathers and their supporters posted above, and her again, you get some idea of the size of this travesty being perpetrated upon so many decent people.

http://www.separateddads.co.uk/what...text=Its aim is to keep,and a great deal more.
 
Dana said:
Is the man Aussie? Over here we call both male and female "mate" if we know them well and I feel I know you oh so well ;)
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No he's a four times married Englishman who gave up his son aged two years old when his first marriage failed for adoption by the mother (so he didn't have to pay towards him I'd perhaps fairly suggest).

You know me you say, "how quaint"! :)
 
grahamg said:
No he's a four times married Englishman who gave up his son aged two years old when his first marriage failed for adoption by the mother (so he didn't have to pay towards him I'd perhaps fairly suggest).

You know me you say, "how quaint"! :)
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I'm English, so of course I'm "quaint." Look Graham, no one can know exactly what you are feeling, but I suspect your heart is breaking, mine would too. I am aware too that a lot is being fought for regarding changes in family law in the UK. My opinion is, good fathers have every right to feel the way you do. Hang in there...all you can do right now, is have uncluttered visits with your daughter. Do fun things, so that when she goes back home, she remembers and thinks of you.
 
In July of 1917 when the news that scientists agreed ( mostly ) that a 6th mass extinction was happening. I contacted my 2 children, Nathan 41 and Tamara 43 to talk to them about it. They both didn't seem to care. So I got angry at them. Tamara and I talked through it after months, but Nathan would not respond. He stopped talking to me for 3 years. That is a very short time compared to over 20 years, but I share the feelings you all have discussed. I finally got an idea in early Feb. this year to beark the ice and wrote to him. Telling him how sorry I was for saying the things I did. I told him I would love to hear some of his families music they make. That did it. He send me a couple of vidoes, and now we are on loving ground again. This was a family fight more than estangement. The second would drive me nuts. I would have to try to move on until/if they decide to contct me. But, sometimes the magic works, but sometimes it doesn't. I would still try occasionally to contact them, maybe behaving as we did before the estrangement and start from there. The rest of the time I would stop dwelling on it, and involve myself with getting on with the remaining days of my life.
 
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