Before anyone else takes the shot

Dana said:
I am not reading all the palaver up above, but whoever said this... "education is the key to who gets the vaccine" or something along those lines...made the best observation.

Yes...the problem lies with lay people putting up posts which they have not examined and expressing strong opinions purely from a personal POV and without any data to back it up.

The very idea of anyone putting up a thread with the bold statement "before anyone else takes the shot" .. is such an insult to the intelligence of members especially since the OP has failed to present any real facts. However, making another incorrect statement about Gene Therapy without even possibly reading Post # 32 (‼️ ) which talks about the very subject, but carries on with the charade, beggars belief!
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Education, race, etc., has NOTHING to do with who decides to get the vaccine - its a personal choice.
 

Ladybj said:
Education, race, etc., has NOTHING to do with who decides to get the vaccine - its a personal choice.
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I said nothing about "race" ... if you are incapable of quoting someone correctly, then avoid quoting them at all!!
 
squatting dog said:
Before you jump to that Reuters fact checker's, (who will split hairs again and something like "the common cold and COVID-19 are not caused by the same coronavirus"). Of course leaving out all the other variants of a cold .
Coronaviruses have four main sub-groups: alpha, beta, gamma, and delta. While they can infect people and animals, human coronaviruses were first identified in the 1960s. These are the seven known coronaviruses that can infect people, per the CDC:

From prevention dot com.

Is the common cold caused by a coronavirus?​

Yes, but not all colds are caused by a coronavirus.

  1. 229E (alpha coronavirus)
  2. NL63 (alpha coronavirus)
  3. OC43 (beta coronavirus)
  4. HKU1 (beta coronavirus)
  5. MERS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, or MERS)
  6. SARS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS)
  7. SARS-CoV-2 (the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19)
Where are all the vaccines for all these that have been a problem a lot longer?
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Do the research for yourself. Duckduckgo is your friend. I'm outta here.
 
Do your own research it is out there.

Compare the Covid vaccine, deaths, reactions, side affects, effectiveness, risks, research, status of those who it affected in some way and those it didn't , etc. with a Typical Flu Season flu vaccine, deaths, reactions, side affects. effectiveness, risks, research, status of those who it affected in some way and those it didn't etc.

The results of the compare are eye opening and interesting.

Look at the science of how and what it takes to actually alter DNA in even just one cell with what a vaccine actually does and where it goes in the body.

Sadly most people like to argue about personal opinions without putting effort into looking at real facts, statistics, research studies etc. So I am out of here. Posting any of the info I listed above has been and will be wasted effort on this crowd.

Speculation, personal opinion and wild ass guessing, when it comes to health issues is a waste of time and energy and can be very risky to do.
 
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Homeschoolie said:
Do your own research it is out there.

Compare the Covid vaccine, deaths, reactions, side affects, effectiveness, risks, research, status of those who it affected in some way and those it didn't , etc. with a Typical Flu Season flu vaccine, deaths, reactions, side affects. effectiveness, risks, research, status of those who it affected in some way and those it didn't etc.

The results of the compare are eye opening and interesting.

Look at the science of how and what it takes to actually alter DNA in even just one cell with what a vaccine actually does and where it goes in the body.

Sadly most people like to argue about personal opinions without putting effort into looking at real facts, statistics, research studies etc. So I am out of here. Posting any of the info I listed above has been and will be wasted effort on this crowd.

Speculation, personal opinion and wild ass guessing, when it comes to health issues is a waste of time and energy and can be very risky to do.
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GREAT Post!!!
 
Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS): I don't know if this site had been previously posted here but it may be of interest to those who seek more data about vaccine reactions. When looking at the data, it should be noted that not all cases of adverse reactions are reported so the real numbers aren't known. At best, this data is another clue.
 
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There is no doubt that these covid-19 vaccines were rushed to market, bypassing the more careful, animal and clinical trials. Thus, you would expect to see more cautionary thoughts, stories and medical papers; however, those are few and far between due to political, peer and governmental pressure. Someone sent me a copy of a pre-release paper that urges caution (not a bad thing) and demands questions from authorities and vaccine developers. I'll not post it all, just the abstract and some salient points.

Abstract: Since the start of the COVID-19 outbreak, the race for testing new platforms designed to confer immunity against SARS-CoV-2, has been rampant and unprecedented, leading to emergency authorization of various vaccines. Despite progress on early multidrug therapy for COVID-19 patients, the current mandate is to immunize the world population as quickly as possible. The lack of thorough testing in animals prior to clinical trials, and authorization based on safety data generated during trials that lasted less than 3.5 months, raise questions regarding the safety of these vaccines. The recently identified role of SARS-CoV-2 glycoprotein Spike for inducing endothelial damage characteristic of COVID-19, even in absence of infection, is extremely relevant given that most of the authorized vaccines induce the production of Spike glycoprotein in the recipients. Given the high rate of occurrence of adverse effects, and the wide range of types of adverse effects that have been reported to date, as well as the potential for vaccine-driven disease enhancement, Th2-immunopathology, autoimmunity, and immune evasion, there is a need for a better understanding of the benefits and risks of mass vaccination, particularly in the groups that were excluded in the clinical trials. Despite calls for caution, the risks of SARS-CoV-2 vaccination have been minimized or ignored by health organizations and government authorities. We appeal to the need for a pluralistic dialogue in the context of health policies, emphasizing critical questions that require urgent answers if we wish to avoid a global erosion of public confidence in science and public health.​
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In conclusion, in the context of the rushed emergency-use-authorization of SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, and the current gaps in our understanding of their safety, the following questions must be raised:​
  • Is it known whether cross-reactive antibodies from previous coronavirus infections or vaccine206 induced antibodies may influence the risk of unintended pathogenesis following vaccination with COVID-19?​
  • Has the specific risk of ADE, immunopathology, autoimmunity, and serious adverse reactions been clearly disclosed to vaccine recipients to meet the medical ethics standard of patient understanding for informed consent? If not, what are the reasons, and how could it be implemented?​
  • What is the rationale for administering the vaccine to every individual when the risk of dying from COVID-19 is not equal across age groups and clinical conditions and when the phase 3 trials excluded the elderly, children and frequent specific conditions?​
  • What are the legal rights of patients if they are harmed by a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine? Who will cover the costs of medical treatment? If claims were to be settled with public money, has the public been made aware that the vaccine manufacturers have been granted immunity, and their responsibility to compensate those harmed by the vaccine has been transferred to the tax-payers?​
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  2. Arvin AM, Fink K, Schmid MA, et al. A perspective on potential antibody- dependent enhancement of SARS-CoV-2. Nature (2020) 484:353–363. doi:10.1038/s41586-020-2538-8​
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  16. Folegatti PM, Ewer KJ, Aley PK, et al. Safety and immunogenicity of the ChAdOx1 nCoV287 19 vaccine against SARS-CoV-2: a preliminary report of a phase 1/2, single-blind, randomised controlled trial. Lancet (2020) 396:467–783. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(20)31604-4​
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  20. Liu L, Wei Q, Lin Q, et al. Anti-spike IgG causes severe acute lung injury by skewing macrophage responses during acute SARS-CoV infection. JCI Insight (2019) 4(4):e123158. doi:10.1172/jci.insight.123158.​
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Since the paper is mostly focusing on questions, I'd suspect it won't make it into the "top shelf" sources due to all the money, emphasis and political prestige that is at stake (and yes, we know, people's health is also at stake). Never the less, there's nothing wrong with asking questions.
 
I think we have to take into account the risk factors for different groups of people, for instance, right now, here in Australia, my chances of catching covid are almost zero, as there's very few cases, those that we do have are all in quarantine and were from returned travellers.
If I were in India, I would be 'busting a gut' to get a vaccine (any vaccine) in my arm, even if it came with a one in million chance of getting a bloodclot
But, my inner sense tells me that this disease is likely to be around for a long time, it aint over yet, especially when we bring back international flights, when my risk of dying with covid will be greater than my dying with the vaccine, so I'm in the queue for a jab as soon as my name comes up
 
maybenot said:
But, my inner sense tells me that this disease is likely to be around for a long time, it aint over yet, especially when we bring back international flights, when my risk of dying with covid will be greater than my dying with the vaccine, so I'm in the queue for a jab as soon as my name comes up
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I think that's going to be true of most of the world when international travel reopens.
 
Good grief, JonDouglas, are you getting a Ph.D. in the subject? I thought this was an informal discussion forum!

Since nobody here is going to read all your footnotes and references, let me introduce some simple, common-sense thoughts on the subject.

1. If this vaccine, which was admittedly "rushed" (out of necessity) was causing deaths, horrifying reactions, etc., wouldn't there be some indication of that by now? People have been getting the vaccine in this country for half a year now.

2. The disease itself does cause many, many deaths (in the millions) and horrifying reactions. I have heard of very few, or none, from the vaccine.

3. I don't know about the correlation between education and receiving the vaccine. But the parts of the country with a higher proportion of educated people do have a higher rate of vaccination. The resistance seems to come largely from rural areas, which may or may not prove something about education.

4. Within the last few years, everyone I know has gotten the newest vaccines for shingles, flu, and pneumonia. Our doctors told us to get it, so we did. No big argument about it, that I have heard. Only this one has provoked so much anger, fear, insulting, skepticism, and nastiness often along political lines.

5. Any vaccine carries a certain amount of "risk," I suppose. We have to weigh the risk of the disease to ourselves against the risk of the vaccine. That is true of every vaccine in the world. From all I've read about this, the people who have received the vaccine are alive. Or at least, they haven't died from Covid or from the vaccine. And isn't that the bottom line?
 
Spike protein vaccines have been in "know" for a couple decades...the SAR's vaccine enabled the covid vaccine to get a jump start. Interesting interview with the maker of the SAR's vaccine, who commented that they offered to make a covid vaccine, but got no takers at the time.
 

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