Mass Murderers. Mental Health Care Needs Help Without the Gov't. Stop Wasting Time Talking Guns. Fix These People Before it Happens

JimBob1952 said:
Ok. So how do you propose to solve the problem of mental illness that leads up to mass murder? Especially without getting the government involved.
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Like I and others have said, as we put our heads together...

"Fix our Mental Healthcare Facilities that are seriously understaffed, underpaid, overworked, unfunded...total failures
1. Start making Good Use of Mainstream Media for a change to Educate our country on what is really going on, what we're lacking.
2. Get the attention all the people with assets in the multi-billions.....
3. Also Holly mentioned community control...see post #5
The Government isn't going to do anything about...most of our mental facilities were closed a decade ago"
 

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JimBob1952 said:
a) We need better treatment of the mentally ill. But no one knows how to do it or how to pay for it. Or what that better treatment really is.

b) We need better-written, better-enforced laws that prevent mentally ill people (among others) from buying or owning firearms.

c) If we want to cut down on the incidence and lethality of mass shootings, however, the only thing that might work would be a national ban
on semi-automatic weapons, both rifles and pistols.

Of course c) will never happen, so it's not worth discussing.
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"C" did happen in some states. Recently overturned in one state, I think.

A definite yes to A and B.

"But no one knows how to do it or how to pay for it. Or what that better treatment really is."
If you're talking about the gov't, I agree. I'm 100% in favor of including a national mental health advisor within the executive branch.
But most states have one, and I do think it's the responsibility of each state to address the issue. The problem is, politicians politicize the issue.
 
Lara said:
As I stated in my opening post:

"Fix our Mental Healthcare Facilities that are seriously understaffed, underpaid, overworked, unfunded...total failures
1. Start making Good Use of Mainstream Media for a change to Educate our country on what is really going on.
2. Get the attention all the people with assets in the multi-billions.....
3. Also Holly mentioned community control...see post #5
The Government is going to do anything about...most of our mental facilities were closed a decade ago"
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Mainstream media is about 99% aligned with gun control and doesn't pay much attention to mental health issues. You're going to hear a lot more about Gabbie Gifford or David Hogg than about any advocates for mental health.

If you can get over that hurdle, you might be able to get the Bloombergs and Gateses of the world to fund some sort of private mental health care system, maybe with a needs-based payment system.

I have heard worse ideas, and I respect you for fresh thinking about such a tough subject.
 
Lara said:
As I stated in my opening post:

"Fix our Mental Healthcare Facilities that are seriously understaffed, underpaid, overworked, unfunded...total failures
1. Start making Good Use of Mainstream Media for a change to Educate our country on what is really going on.
2. Get the attention all the people with assets in the multi-billions.....
3. Also Holly mentioned community control...see post #5
The Government is going to do anything about...most of our mental facilities were closed a decade ago"
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When state governments started opening up mental health clinics, the services were cheap, and to some it was free. This caused the closure of many thousand psychiatry and psychology practices. The most egregious decision regarding these mental health clinics is that states started "retiring" the PhD staff, and replacing them with cheaper, less educated staff. Individual treatment became cookie-cutter treatment, and people with truly serious mental health issues were referred to medical doctors and hospitals.

It just turned out really badly.
 
JimBob1952 said:
Maybe the concept should be a sort of Mayo Clinic "center of excellence" for mental health at the national level, and local clinics/small hospitals for treatment at the local level.
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If states would then be expected or maybe financially rewarded to follow the Center of Excellence model, that could work.

People need to expect and demand better. That's what I'm getting at.
 
I agree that we need to do a better job of screening, diagnosing, and treating mental illness but I don’t want to live in a world where you can be locked away because someone decides you might commit a violent crime.

Also I don’t want to live in a world where I’m dependent on the super rich to solve my problems and take care of me.
 
JimBob1952 said:
...If you can get over that hurdle [media on guns], you might be able to get the Bloombergs and Gateses of the world to fund some sort of private mental health care system, maybe with a needs-based payment system.

I have heard worse ideas, and I respect you for fresh thinking about such a tough subject.
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I did mention getting attention of the rich in opening post and about re-directing Mainstream Media to focus on educating the public on mental health issues :
Lara said:
Attention all you people with assets in the multi-billions.....
The Government is going to do anything...most of our mental facilities were closed a decade ago

Fix our Mental Healthcare Facilities that are seriously understaffed, underpaid, overworked, unfunded...total failures.
Start making Good Use of Mainstream Media for a change to Educate our country on what is really going on.

`
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...and you say you heard of worse ideas? Thanks
 
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Murrmurr said:
If states would then be expected or maybe financially rewarded to follow the Center of Excellence model, that could work.

People need to expect and demand better. That's what I'm getting at.
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Couldn't agree with you more. Why we put up with medieval-era mental health practices (or 21st century overreliance on pharmaceuticals) is a mystery.

We could also save money. I remember seeing something to the effect that a homeless person typically costs his city hundreds of thousands of dollars in ER visits, police interventions and other activities over a few years. Getting that person treated (as most homeless people have mental health and/or substance abuse problems) and off the streets could easily pay for itself.
 
Lara said:
I did mention getting attention of the rich in opening post and about re-directing Mainstream Media to focus on educating the public on mental health issues :

...and you say you heard of worse ideas? Thanks.
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Lara, you seem to think I'm arguing with you when I'm not. I respect your thinking and if I haven't made that clear I apologize.
 
An-y-way, this is why people with mental illness hide their disorder until it is too late. Also not all murderers are mentally ill they are just bent the wrong way personality-wise. There are plenty of labels mental health professionals use to describe this. Borderline, sociopath, psychopath, etc. Doesn't mean they are nuts. Just sayin'.
 
The truth is we don't know much about mental illness. The first drug to be seen as anywhere effective is lithium, and that was in 1949. For some unknown reason, volunteers don't seem to be lining up to have their brains taken out, and studied. There are legitimate ethical reasons why we can't do the same type of experiments of humans, that you could on a rat. We need to know so much more, we are dealing with the world's most complex thing-the human brain. I totally agree that our knowledge of mental illness is pitiful. And there are all kinds of misconceptions about mental illness. One being you can know if someone is insane by looking at a photograph. It is a misconception that all people with a mental illness are a threat to anyone, other than themselves. The mentally ill are way more likely to be the victims of incidents. If you commit murder, sane or not, you don't get to go home.
 
fmdog44 said:
I just saw a Court Cam episode where a guy sadistically murdered a person and got life in a mental institution not prison. I don't know what state it was in but I never knew life in a mental institution was ever given out as a sentence for a crime.
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On July 27, 2016, a federal judge ruled that Hinckley could be released from St. Elizabeths on August 5, as he was no longer considered a threat to himself or others. Hinckley was released from institutional psychiatric care on September 10, 2016, with many conditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckley_Jr.
 
Reading a book that was a bestseller last year called Hidden Valley Road. Very powerful study of a family of 12 kids, 6 diagnosed with schizophrenia. As fuzzybuddy and others have noted, it is amazing how little we know about these conditions.
 
Ruthanne said:
But if gun laws were better they wouldn't be able to get them.

Btw only 3% of mentally ill are dangerous. Most have more fear problems.
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Gun laws can't be much better IMO. Have you ever gone to a gun store, and asked about the restrictions , etc ? They're pretty strict . As far as "personal" sales, not much can be done about them.
 
Thank you @rgp 👍 It's not just you. We are all having a hard time re-directing our focus toward Preventative Mental Health Solutions before the next massacre because it's hard to figure out...and very involved.

It's easy to just say we don't know enough. True, research and education is a big one but meanwhile we can't just sit around and wait without trying to come up with a plan...at least step one.

Some have brought up some good suggestions to ponder. That's what I was hoping for.
 
🤦🏻‍♀️ Ok, I am going to comment 😂, the following is MY OPINION, nothing more. My opinion and a dollar and fifty cents will buy you a coke most anywhere but not everywhere. 😂

This thread has linked murders, mass murderers, to mental illness. Not all mass murderers are mentally ill. The legal definition of mental illness, as far as crimes are concerned, is very strict and probably differs state to state.

While many people think anyone who has killed a massive amount of people must be insane that premise is far from true. A machine gunner in any War has killed a massive amount of people yet they are not considered insane. Military pilots killed massive amounts of people with bombs, and on, and on and on. Killing a massive amount of people, at one time, is not a test of ones sanity.

You can not recognize a murderer by his eyes. You can not pick out a “crazy” person by his eyes. You can not pick out a mentally ill person by his eyes. Many serial killers were/are very nice, likable, personable individuals with beautiful eyes and they have killed a massive amount of people. Often times without a gun, and without being legally insane. The FBI reports that several serial killers are operating in the USA at any given time.

Large institutions for mentally ill do not work. This is a proven fact. Moving any class of people to a restrictive environment is unworkable, against international law in most cases, and crazy in and of itself. Consider the issues we and other countries have with holding terrorists, which cannot be help on US soil because of what we do to them.

There is a difference between the mentally ill and the criminally insane. People are not cars, they cannot be fixed. There is a difference between a drive by-gang shooting, and a frustrated angry armed person killing groups of people. But neither of these mass murders are judged mentally ill.

I simply do not understand what the linkages presented here are between mentally ill people and the massive amount of shooters we have in the USA, many of who are not mentally ill. I find the thread confusing
 
Doesn't the fact that this issue has been ongoing since the University of Texas shooting decades ago tell us there is no solution? I think it does Sandy Hook proved that. People are killing each other at a rate never before seen here and nothing is being done. Compare it to medical care. You have a family member very sick so you call your doctor and the reply you get it "Of course we care and it is serious issue but we simply refuse to actually DO something. Good luck"
 


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