Mass Murderers. Mental Health Care Needs Help Without the Gov't. Stop Wasting Time Talking Guns. Fix These People Before it Happens

ohioboy

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
Lara, you are right, together some Billionaire's can make such a huge impact with philanthropy, instead of buying $100 million yaughts and houses. Shaq has a $50 million yaught! Why? Jeff Bezos has a fleet of private jets and a multi multi million $$ home? Why?
 

Nathan

Senior Member
Charles Manson was born to a 16 yr. old alcoholic prostitute, from there things got worse. Maybe if Manson's mother had some kind of support or guidance his life might have turned our differently.
I think government can make a big difference with mental health, the Public can't just sit on their hands and expect their will to be known.
 

fmdog44

Well-known Member
Location
Houston, Texas
Russia is 11th in the world for alcohol consumption and we are 45th I saw on a 2016 chart. So that tells me most of the mass shootings are done by nondrinkers. Granted Russians are not allowed to own guns.
 

fmdog44

Well-known Member
Location
Houston, Texas
Charles Manson was born to a 16 yr. old alcoholic prostitute, from there things got worse. Maybe if Manson's mother had some kind of support or guidance his life might have turned our differently.
I think government can make a big difference with mental health, the Public can't just sit on their hands and expect their will to be known.
The Unabomber's mom was a low life alcoholic.
 

mellowyellow

Senior Member
Charles Manson was born to a 16 yr. old alcoholic prostitute, from there things got worse. Maybe if Manson's mother had some kind of support or guidance his life might have turned our differently.
I think government can make a big difference with mental health, the Public can't just sit on their hands and expect their will to be known.
If Charles Manson was born to a drug addicted prostitute, what chance did he have? Although I applaud increased spending for mental health, I doubt it would have made a difference to his life. Sadly it all comes down to an accident of birth.

A Japanese man born to wealthy parents has been awarded about $371,000 in damages after accidentally being switched with another baby and spending decades living in poverty.

It was almost 60 years before a DNA test revealed the life-changing mistake by a hospital worker who had bathed the newborns and returned them to the wrong mothers.

The men spent decades living each others’ lives: one man living off welfare checks before working as a truck driver, the other enjoying a private education and now running his own real-estate business.

“I feel ... regret and also anger,” the poverty-stricken man, who has withheld his identity, told a press conference on Wednesday. “I want them to turn back the clock.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2013/12/04/switched-at-birth-rich-parents-son-sues-for-life-of-poverty.html
 

Della

Member
🤦🏻‍♀️ Ok, I am going to comment 😂, the following is MY OPINION, nothing more. My opinion and a dollar and fifty cents will buy you a coke most anywhere but not everywhere. 😂

This thread has linked murders, mass murderers, to mental illness. Not all mass murderers are mentally ill. The legal definition of mental illness, as far as crimes are concerned, is very strict and probably differs state to state.

While many people think anyone who has killed a massive amount of people must be insane that premise is far from true. A machine gunner in any War has killed a massive amount of people yet they are not considered insane. Military pilots killed massive amounts of people with bombs, and on, and on and on. Killing a massive amount of people, at one time, is not a test of ones sanity.

You can not recognize a murderer by his eyes. You can not pick out a “crazy” person by his eyes. You can not pick out a mentally ill person by his eyes. Many serial killers were/are very nice, likable, personable individuals with beautiful eyes and they have killed a massive amount of people. Often times without a gun, and without being legally insane. The FBI reports that several serial killers are operating in the USA at any given time.

Large institutions for mentally ill do not work. This is a proven fact. Moving any class of people to a restrictive environment is unworkable, against international law in most cases, and crazy in and of itself. Consider the issues we and other countries have with holding terrorists, which cannot be help on US soil because of what we do to them.

There is a difference between the mentally ill and the criminally insane. People are not cars, they cannot be fixed. There is a difference between a drive by-gang shooting, and a frustrated angry armed person killing groups of people. But neither of these mass murders are judged mentally ill.

I simply do not understand what the linkages presented here are between mentally ill people and the massive amount of shooters we have in the USA, many of who are not mentally ill. I find the thread confusing
Thank you Aneeda. This thread was getting to be offensive. I'm glad someone was willing to stand up for the people who suffer from mental illness.
Sometime in the past, it became "politically incorrect" to label someone as being insane. As a result, large numbers of the mentally ill get little or no help with their problems....and just wander aimlessly through society....Until they finally break down, completely.
That's because there is no such illness as "insane" that is a legal term. All the folks who get their knickers in a twist when someone "gets off" with an insanity plea, should know that such people usually spend more time locked up than those who go to prison. A criminal can do as little as ten years in prison for murder, while the same crime, committed by someone who pleads insanity, can result in life in a very unpleasant lock down mental institution. They stay until the staff decides they are cured which can be never.
--------------------------
Murder, even mass murders are committed by sane people everyday. Think of the LA shooter who was just upset that his gambling was going badly and his wife had left him.

Some of the group pictured in the opening post are mentally ill, but not all the same illnesses. The Sandy Hook shooter was on the autism spectrum, such people are rarely violent but his illness had gone untreated and allowed to worsen in isolation for a long time. Others have bi-polar (that's the one treated by lithium) others have schizophrenia.

Schizophrenia is considered the worst mental illness and it is treated by a variety of anti-psychotic drugs from Haldol to Abilify. James Holmes, the one who shot people in the movie theater had schizophrenia, but had not yet been firmly diagnosed. That's a big part of the problem. Schizophrenia usually strikes young men in their early 20's when they are away at college. Friends will think they are on drugs, family wont be around and they can have horrible experiences before they are treated. The biggest danger then is not mass shootings, which are really very rare, but that they will kill themselves. Just imagine how nightmarish it must be to feel you are losing your mind and have lost the ability to tell reality from imagination. Hearing voices is terrifying.

Working against them are the laws that keep their families from forcing them to get help. The patient is so paranoid, he will be afraid to go to the doctor. One thing they fear is being labelled as insane. Laws that require the psychiatrist to report the illness to gun dealers just reinforce the patient's hesitancy to go to the doctor and infringe on patient doctor privacy.

In most states, the family can't get help for their loved ones until they are considered "a danger to themselves or others." So they must wait until they attempt suicide before they can be committed to a hospital. Once on medication they can usually see the need for help, but it has to start somewhere. We need to loosen those laws so family can step in earlier. Maybe allowed forced commitment with a doctor's referral.

We need good mental health clinics in every town so that patients can get the medication they need. Most can live and work like any other contributing member of the community.

People with schizophrenia who are on medication are actually less likely to be violent than ordinary people.

We need many more psychiatric hospitals. Good safe. well run places, for the ones who don't respond well to medication and need to be cared for, just as we would care for anyone who is severely ill.

All these things are possible if we're willing to devote the tax payer money to the cause. Other countries do much better.
 

hollydolly

SF VIP
Location
London England
If Charles Manson was born to a drug addicted prostitute, what chance did he have? Although I applaud increased spending for mental health, I doubt it would have made a difference to his life. Sadly it all comes down to an accident of birth.

A Japanese man born to wealthy parents has been awarded about $371,000 in damages after accidentally being switched with another baby and spending decades living in poverty.

It was almost 60 years before a DNA test revealed the life-changing mistake by a hospital worker who had bathed the newborns and returned them to the wrong mothers.

The men spent decades living each others’ lives: one man living off welfare checks before working as a truck driver, the other enjoying a private education and now running his own real-estate business.

“I feel ... regret and also anger,” the poverty-stricken man, who has withheld his identity, told a press conference on Wednesday. “I want them to turn back the clock.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2013/12/04/switched-at-birth-rich-parents-son-sues-for-life-of-poverty.html
so do you think that proves Nurture over nature ?:unsure:
 
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Sunny

SF VIP
Location
Maryland
Looking for the main reason for all the mass shootings should be a pretty easy one to figure out. It isn't rocket science. If we compare two countries, that should give us the answer.

Country A and Country B have about the same rate of mental illness.

Country A has strict gun control laws. Country B has few or none.

What is the difference in the rate of mass killings?

Of course, there are other factors involved; it is never really that simple. But piling all the blame on the mentally ill people who are not locked up in "asylums" (what century are we living in, anyway?) is a ridiculous oversimplification.

How about religion? Do countries with high church attendance have more mass murders than countries with little or no church attendance?

How about what is taught in the schools? How about alcoholism? How about the social media that are mainly used in each country? How about two-parent homes? How about the places where kids are mainly raised by grandparents while the parents go to work? Do they have a higher rate of mass killings?

There are probably dozens of other factors in this also. Just pointing a finger at the mentally ill, most of whom are harmless, is ridiculous.
 

Aneeda72

Well-known Member
Granted, it would be next impossible to lock-up all that need to be but.

Why in the world did we ever close all [most] of the asylums ?

It was crazy I tell ya ........... pun intended.
Why did we close the asylums? Because they WERE asylums, they were not treatment facilities. Mentally ill, criminally insane, mentally retarded, severely physically disabled people and others were are lumped together in one asylum-state hospitals.

Patients were all abused, neglected, and ignored by most everyone. They cost a great deal of money to run and violated everyone’s human rights, including IMO, the rights of the employees who were often sadistic losers who should have been patients themselves. These places still exist in many countries and are a blight on the human race.
 

JimBob1952

Senior Member
Just got notice that my joke post on AOC and "crazy eyes" was deleted because "no politics please."

I'm tired of this sort of thing and think I'll move on from SF. I like to talk about politics, although I always try to do it in a polite, fact-based manner. So having someone come in and tell me I can't post this or that isn't really suitable.

Good luck to all here and enjoy your conversations.
 

Aunt Marg

Granny Pantie Power!
Just got notice that my joke post on AOC and "crazy eyes" was deleted because "no politics please."

I'm tired of this sort of thing and think I'll move on from SF. I like to talk about politics, although I always try to do it in a polite, fact-based manner. So having someone come in and tell me I can't post this or that isn't really suitable.

Good luck to all here and enjoy your conversations.
Come on, JimBob... you and I mix like oil and water, but I still enjoy your conversation and company on the forum, even though you ignore me most of the time.

Politics is just a shave of what the forum doesn't have to offer, so forget about that and keep on keeping on. Would be a drag to lose you.
 

Aneeda72

Well-known Member
Just got notice that my joke post on AOC and "crazy eyes" was deleted because "no politics please."

I'm tired of this sort of thing and think I'll move on from SF. I like to talk about politics, although I always try to do it in a polite, fact-based manner. So having someone come in and tell me I can't post this or that isn't really suitable.

Good luck to all here and enjoy your conversations.
This has happened to me more than a few times, but you got to do what’s best for you. Bye
 

rgp

Well-known Member
Location
Milford,OH
Why did we close the asylums? Because they WERE asylums, they were not treatment facilities. Mentally ill, criminally insane, mentally retarded, severely physically disabled people and others were are lumped together in one asylum-state hospitals.

Patients were all abused, neglected, and ignored by most everyone. They cost a great deal of money to run and violated everyone’s human rights, including IMO, the rights of the employees who were often sadistic losers who should have been patients themselves. These places still exist in many countries and are a blight on the human race.

OK then, how'bout this. The very first time someone displays behaviour that is truly "mentally ill"] ....... euthanize them.

If not ? ............. We, as a society just keep rolling the dice. ...........You, or members of your family could be next.
 


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