Magna-Carta
Senior Member
- Location
- UK
We camped there on our honeymoon in 1976, very nice experience. A few years later we spent time in beautiful Banff National Park in Canada.
Definitely a place I would like to go to.
Newsweek reports United States is the 2nd most hated country in the world
- Thread starter Paco Dennis
- Start date
- Status
Definitely a place I would like to go to.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I wouldn't use the term bully to describe the US but by dint of sheer might and financial wealth US is able to bend the will of other less well endowed countries. This does give rise to resentment. The US hegemony is being challenged by China and other emerging powerful blocks of nations.
Australia, down here at the a*** end of the planet, is tiptoeing on a high wire between US and China. If war between these two superpowers were to erupt we would immediately align with US. China, if it chose to would only have to cut off our sea lanes and we would be in big trouble. Our stockpiled oil/petrol supply is housed in US. How stupid is that? The AUKUS submarines we have commissioned will not be available for decades. There is no guarantee in the contract that we will ever get them. Another error IMO.
Not hard to see why Australians are vitally interested US government priorities. Even the outcome of our impending federal election is being shaped by US foreign and domestic policies. It is very alarming.
Magna-Carta
Senior Member
- Location
- UK
It seems that you are asking for statistics. And on the face of it, you seem to make a fair point, in that per capita is a better comparative measure. But if someone’s going to suggest it changes the picture, it helps if they actually show how. Saying “I’m not going to do the research...” while hinting at a different conclusion doesn’t really move things forward, for anyone -- poster nor reader.
Just for reference then, and because you asked, here is some data on firearm homicide rates per 100,000 people (i.e. intentional killing with a gun). Different sources give slightly different figures, but the general differences are the same:
United States, 2023 (Firearm homicide): 5.6 per 100,000
United Kingdom, Year Ending March 2023. The UK often quotes a Financial Year as the start of April to the end of March the following year (All homicide regardless of method or weapon): 0.99 per 100,000
Canada, 2023 (Firearm homicide): 0.72 per 100,000
Australia, 2023 - 24 (Firearm homicide): 0.30 per 100,000
It doesn’t take much digging to see the differences are quite stark, even when adjusted for population. Remove the Firearm homicide equation, and instead include all homicides, I wonder what that might look like? How far might the US surge ahead then?
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Yes Warrigal think we got that message!!
Biblically speaking and I know Usa is a bible nation as well as Koran and the Jewish tomes too - look at the sh''t that is happening out in Gaza in the name of Allah and the Jewish tomes - murdering has been in the DNA of humans since Adam and Eve who their sons must have caught it off and its been around ever since in single doses and huge national doses - the strong picking on the weak - it is happening on all the major streets of the world capitals to a lesser or greater extent. We are a murderous species sometimes often ; sometimes never but sometimes always?
That's why we are exhorted to go to church and cleanse our souls? will killing be stopping soon - I doubt it - we could if we wanted have a murder thread and report it daily? Are people being mistreated around the world because of dislike of other sects and religions - for sure
THIS PLANET MAJORS IN MURDER FULL TIME!! - but some of us are sand buryers and chose to ignore it?
Do we all care about humanity - not the majority I doubt but happy to take bets on that one? bring ya own stats.
Even religions doesn't stop murder and mayhem on a grand scale - look back in history for the last few hundred/thousand years and see it all - it's on the documentaries and in the textbooks etc etc.
We all need to face it ; own up to it humanity as a murderous face to it at times. Religions have tried to bend us back to a greater humanity but record don't look too good.
But there is a good spark somehow ignited over the eons that many of us attempt valiantly to follow often alone but mostly among other church goers. There is no salvation in world leaders; PM's Presidents etc - as a species we have always unfortunately been defective - we all need to seek our own individual salvations and stop trying to save too many others?
Biblically speaking and I know Usa is a bible nation as well as Koran and the Jewish tomes too - look at the sh''t that is happening out in Gaza in the name of Allah and the Jewish tomes - murdering has been in the DNA of humans since Adam and Eve who their sons must have caught it off and its been around ever since in single doses and huge national doses - the strong picking on the weak - it is happening on all the major streets of the world capitals to a lesser or greater extent. We are a murderous species sometimes often ; sometimes never but sometimes always?
That's why we are exhorted to go to church and cleanse our souls? will killing be stopping soon - I doubt it - we could if we wanted have a murder thread and report it daily? Are people being mistreated around the world because of dislike of other sects and religions - for sure
THIS PLANET MAJORS IN MURDER FULL TIME!! - but some of us are sand buryers and chose to ignore it?
Do we all care about humanity - not the majority I doubt but happy to take bets on that one? bring ya own stats.
Even religions doesn't stop murder and mayhem on a grand scale - look back in history for the last few hundred/thousand years and see it all - it's on the documentaries and in the textbooks etc etc.
We all need to face it ; own up to it humanity as a murderous face to it at times. Religions have tried to bend us back to a greater humanity but record don't look too good.
But there is a good spark somehow ignited over the eons that many of us attempt valiantly to follow often alone but mostly among other church goers. There is no salvation in world leaders; PM's Presidents etc - as a species we have always unfortunately been defective - we all need to seek our own individual salvations and stop trying to save too many others?
You’re still brushing complexity aside in an attempt to preserve your simplistic narrative. You claim “no other thing about the US is unique” compared to other Western nations, but that’s simply false. The U.S. is unique in several critical areas that directly intersect with violence rates: You don’t have a 13% minority population with vastly different historical, economic, and social trajectories, many of whom are trapped in chronically violent, segregated urban environments.
You don’t have the U.S.– Mexico border or a constant pipeline for drug trafficking and cartel influence, feeding gang violence in cities like Chicago, Houston, and Los Angeles. You don’t have the same level of fatherless households, decaying school systems, or legacy of failed war-on-crime policies that gutted communities and destroyed trust in policing.
Yes, Australia and other Western countries have poverty, but not on the same scale, context, or cultural fragmentation. And pretending otherwise is intellectually lazy. Gun culture is a factor, but not the factor. You’re mistaking a correlation (more guns, more gun deaths) for causation without parsing out the kind of deaths, the environments they occur in, or the structural factors that drive them.
Norway and Switzerland have high rates of gun ownership too, but they do not have high homicide rates because they have different conditions. So if you're going to argue that guns are the one and only variable, you’re not analyzing, you’re proselytizing.
UpstateGal
Member
Maybe insert a few emojis in your posts to soften the blow
You are right in some of your points but how do you explain mass casualties at elementary schools, stores, and concerts? Those were not the result of the 13% of the population you refer to. Most of the murderers were just disturbed White people.
Also, how do you explain this?
What share of U.S. gun deaths are murders? What share are suicides?
Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2023, 58% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (27,300), while 38% were murders (17,927). The remaining gun deaths that year involved law enforcement (604), were accidental (463) or had undetermined circumstances (434), according to CDC data.
You're shifting the goalposts. The post you're replying to was specifically addressing international comparisons such as Australia vs. the U.S. and why it's misguided to claim that differing gun laws alone explain the disparity in violence. The focus was on contextual national challenges, not isolated individuals committing mass shootings or personal tragedies like suicide.
Yes, mass shootings like those at schools and concerts are horrific, and yes, they're often committed by mentally unstable white individuals. No one’s denying that. But these events, while shocking and widely covered, make up a tiny fraction of overall gun deaths and an even smaller slice of violent crime in general. As for suicide: that’s a serious public health issue, not a criminal violence issue.
The causes of suicide are fundamentally different from the causes of gang violence or mass shootings. Lumping suicides in with murders as if they stem from the same cultural or policy failures is misleading. The truth remains: when you talk about the U.S. having a uniquely high homicide rate compared to countries like Australia, you can't ignore the overwhelming share of those homicides that occur in urban gang environments, disproportionately driven by a small segment of the population.
That reality doesn't vanish just because other types of gun deaths exist. So let’s keep the conversation honest and on point. If we’re comparing national violence patterns, the differences in demographics, geography, gang culture, and social fragmentation absolutely matter.
basically sound good points imo
Brilliant reply. Thank you. Apparently you decided to pick up the gauntlet I laid at hollydolly's feet, who I believe became offended at a comment I made a few weeks ago and blocked me. IOW, you did her work for her.
Now insert the part of weapons at large. That includes knives, toasters, cricket bats, scimitars, machetes, and similar objects that could conceivably be used as a weapon. Run the numbers again and let's see what we have.
Let me give you a hint -- you apparently live in the UK. You are neither subject to nor associated with the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. Therefore, your data collection effort doesn't amount to much with me. And to be quite blunt and at the risk of repeating myself throughout this thread, I don't care what you (meaning those who live outside the USA) think about firearms, the reason for the 2A, and similar discussions. In a word, what you think and believe is meaningless and has no impact on citizens of the USA.
But apart from all that, my overall point is simply this -- weapons are not limited to firearms. If firearm ownership is restricted (as presumably is the case in the UK), if somebody is pissed off enough, they'll use whatever weapon is handy to commit violence. And yes, that happens in the UK as well as it does everywhere.
If your point is that the U.S. has a higher overall homicide rate even without firearm related deaths then that only strengthens my argument that violence in America isn’t just about the availability of guns.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I'm 82 years old and not accustomed to using emojisMaybe insert a few emojis in your posts to soften the blow
Also, I forget lots of things these days.
I'll try to concentrate on the emojis as well as the grammar and spelling, but don't hold your breath.
I did not add anything to the cookies for last week's play date with Aussies. Does that count
Like your previous message, I have no idea what you mean.
I didn't say gun laws and gun culture are the only variable but they are the one big difference between US and every other western country
If you somehow think all these other factors are the reason for your gun death rate that is so much higher than everyone else's, so be it
Seems a denial of the obvious to me - trying to find zebras, if you like.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
The below wikipedia listing is a good starting point. There is more they were afraid to add and some of these the US shares with other Western nations. The rise of Television, Hollywood movies, the Internet, and Smartphones has allowed vast numbers of people elsewhere on the planet to view Americans and what the USA does more than ever before.
Endless growth and development due to unrestrained capitalism and then globalism with wealth seeking elites selfishly pushing excessive immigration and overpopulation, divisive culture, religious, and moral values on other countries. Immense levels of substance drug abuse, consumption of pornography, and junk food consumption.
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Stereotypes of Americans - Wikipedia
These stereotypes can be found across cultures in television, literature, art and public opinion. Not all of the stereotypes are equally popular, nor are they all restricted to Americans; and although most can be considered negative, a few assign neutral, positive or admiring qualities to the stereotypical American citizen. Many of the ethnic stereotypes collide with otherwise unrelated political anti-Americanism.
Obsession with guns:
The United States has a historical fondness for guns, and this is often portrayed in American media. A considerable percentage of Americans own firearms, and the United States has some of the developed world's highest death rates caused by firearms. A 2018 article attributed the high death rates to mass shootings or inner city violence, but the murder rate in America was then on a decline, and it appeared that suicide by firearm is a large contributor to the "gun-deaths" statistic.
The international media often report American mass shootings, making these incidents well known internationally despite the fact that these kind of killings account for an extremely small portion of the firearms death rate. In 2007, the United States was ranked number one in gun ownership with a rate of 88.8 guns per 100 residents. In 2017, the United States again ranked number one in gun ownership with a rate of 120.5 guns per 100 citizens.
Materialism, over-consumption, and extreme capitalism:
A common stereotype of Americans is that of economic materialism and capitalism. They may be seen as caring most about money, judging all things by their economic value, and scorning those of lower socioeconomic status,despite the fact that, as noted above, Americans are also highly charitable by global standards.Total charitable contributions in 2010 were higher in the United States than in any other country.
Lack of cultural awareness:
Americans may be stereotyped as ignorant of countries and cultures beyond their own. This stereotype shows them as lacking intellectual curiosity, thus making them ignorant of other cultures, places, or lifestyles outside of the United States. The stereotype of a decline in cultural awareness among American students is attributed by some critics to the ostensible declining standards of American schools and curricula.
Racism and racialism:
Racism had a significant presence in American history throughout the 18th, 19th, and early to mid 20th centuries. However, following the emancipation of Black slaves after the American Civil War and the civil rights movements of the 1950s and 1960s, Americans of all races achieved the same freedoms and legal protections as the white-majority population, and discrimination against people of minority races due to their race is now illegal - though examples of racial discrimination do continue into the present, they are statistically rare.
In a 2017 survey, 58% of Americans are concerned about structural racism. The characterization of America as being a racist nation in the modern country is politically divisive, with Democrats largely favoring the notion that America and Western Society as a whole are built on racism, whereas Republicans largely maintain that while inequalities do exist, they are not the result of racial discrimination today or in the relevant past.
Environmental ignorance:
Americans may be seen as reckless and imprudent regarding the preservation of the environment. They may be portrayed as lavish, driving high polluting SUVs and unconcerned about climate change or global warming. The United States (whose population is 327 million) has the second-highest carbon dioxide emissions after China (whose population is 1.4 billion), is one of the few countries which did not ratify the Kyoto Protocol, and one of three countries to refuse to participate in the Paris Agreement.
In the context of stereotyping, it is perhaps more relevant to look at CO2 production per capita; the USA compares favorably with oil-producing nations in the Middle East, with Qatar at 40.3 metric tons per capita versus the United States' 17.6 metric tons per capita, though they are behind most European countries. Germany, for instance, emits only 9.1 metric tons per capita. However, the United States has reduced their energy-related greenhouse gas emissions by 12% from 2005 to 2018 while, in the same time period, the world's energy-related emissions have increased by 24%.
Arrogance and nationalism:
Americans are often stereotyped as arrogant. They are frequently depicted in foreign media as excessively nationalistic and obnoxiously patriotic, believing the United States is better than all other countries and patronizing foreigners. Americans may be seen by people of other countries as arrogant and egomaniacal. In 2009, then-U.S. President Barack Obama said that the United States has "shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive" towards its allies.
Jingoism:
Another common stereotype is that Americans want to be "the world's policemen", believing that the entire world needs their help – even if this results in preemptive military intervention – because they are somehow exceptional. This relatively recent stereotype spawned from Cold War and post-Cold War military interventions such as the Vietnam War and Iraq War, which many people opposed.
The United States is also stereotyped being a country with Hero syndrome in foreign media. The Hero syndrome manifests itself when the protagonist suffering the syndrome creates supposed, implied or ostensible crises only to eventually resolve them thereby becoming the savior of the day, the hero of the moment.
Workaholic culture:
While the stereotype of hard-working Americans is often a positive one, the United States has also been criticized in recent years as a workaholic culture. In The Huffington Post, Tijana Milosevic, a Serbian who had traveled to Washington, D.C. for a degree, wrote, "In fact my family and friends had observed that I shouldn’t have chosen America, since I would probably feel better in Western Europe — where life is not as fast paced as in the US and capitalism still has a 'human face.'"
She noted that "Americans still work nine full weeks (350 hours) longer than West Europeans do and paid vacation days across Western Europe are well above the US threshold." Researchers at Oxford Economics hired by the US Travel Association estimated that in 2014 "about 169m [vacation] days, equivalent to $52.4bn in lost benefits", went unused by American workers.Professor Gary L. Cooper argued Americans "have a great deal to learn from Europeans about getting better balance between work and life" and wrote:
The notion that working long hours and not taking holidays makes for a more productive workforce is, in my view, a managerial myth, with no foundation in organizational or psychological science. The human body is a biological machine, and like all machines can wear out. In addition, if employees don't invest personal disposal time in their relationships outside, with their family, loved ones and friends, they will be undermining the very social support systems they may need in difficult and stressful times
Obesity:
A very common stereotype of Americans, attested across the globe, is that they are overweight or obese. The "fat American" trope usually goes hand-in-hand with stereotypes of consumerism, but geopolitically, it has also been associated with expansionism and cultural imperialism. In 2017, a study found that overweight Asians were more likely to be seen as "American" than non-overweight Asians, though the same was not true for other ethnicities.
Driving habits:
Americans are seen to be over-reliant on personal automobiles, while neglecting other forms of transport such as biking or public transport. They are also seen to be easily confused by roundabouts.
Endless growth and development due to unrestrained capitalism and then globalism with wealth seeking elites selfishly pushing excessive immigration and overpopulation, divisive culture, religious, and moral values on other countries. Immense levels of substance drug abuse, consumption of pornography, and junk food consumption.
-------------------------
Stereotypes of Americans - Wikipedia
These stereotypes can be found across cultures in television, literature, art and public opinion. Not all of the stereotypes are equally popular, nor are they all restricted to Americans; and although most can be considered negative, a few assign neutral, positive or admiring qualities to the stereotypical American citizen. Many of the ethnic stereotypes collide with otherwise unrelated political anti-Americanism.
Obsession with guns:
The United States has a historical fondness for guns, and this is often portrayed in American media. A considerable percentage of Americans own firearms, and the United States has some of the developed world's highest death rates caused by firearms. A 2018 article attributed the high death rates to mass shootings or inner city violence, but the murder rate in America was then on a decline, and it appeared that suicide by firearm is a large contributor to the "gun-deaths" statistic.
The international media often report American mass shootings, making these incidents well known internationally despite the fact that these kind of killings account for an extremely small portion of the firearms death rate. In 2007, the United States was ranked number one in gun ownership with a rate of 88.8 guns per 100 residents. In 2017, the United States again ranked number one in gun ownership with a rate of 120.5 guns per 100 citizens.
Materialism, over-consumption, and extreme capitalism:
A common stereotype of Americans is that of economic materialism and capitalism. They may be seen as caring most about money, judging all things by their economic value, and scorning those of lower socioeconomic status,despite the fact that, as noted above, Americans are also highly charitable by global standards.Total charitable contributions in 2010 were higher in the United States than in any other country.
Lack of cultural awareness:
Americans may be stereotyped as ignorant of countries and cultures beyond their own. This stereotype shows them as lacking intellectual curiosity, thus making them ignorant of other cultures, places, or lifestyles outside of the United States. The stereotype of a decline in cultural awareness among American students is attributed by some critics to the ostensible declining standards of American schools and curricula.
Racism and racialism:
Racism had a significant presence in American history throughout the 18th, 19th, and early to mid 20th centuries. However, following the emancipation of Black slaves after the American Civil War and the civil rights movements of the 1950s and 1960s, Americans of all races achieved the same freedoms and legal protections as the white-majority population, and discrimination against people of minority races due to their race is now illegal - though examples of racial discrimination do continue into the present, they are statistically rare.
In a 2017 survey, 58% of Americans are concerned about structural racism. The characterization of America as being a racist nation in the modern country is politically divisive, with Democrats largely favoring the notion that America and Western Society as a whole are built on racism, whereas Republicans largely maintain that while inequalities do exist, they are not the result of racial discrimination today or in the relevant past.
Environmental ignorance:
Americans may be seen as reckless and imprudent regarding the preservation of the environment. They may be portrayed as lavish, driving high polluting SUVs and unconcerned about climate change or global warming. The United States (whose population is 327 million) has the second-highest carbon dioxide emissions after China (whose population is 1.4 billion), is one of the few countries which did not ratify the Kyoto Protocol, and one of three countries to refuse to participate in the Paris Agreement.
In the context of stereotyping, it is perhaps more relevant to look at CO2 production per capita; the USA compares favorably with oil-producing nations in the Middle East, with Qatar at 40.3 metric tons per capita versus the United States' 17.6 metric tons per capita, though they are behind most European countries. Germany, for instance, emits only 9.1 metric tons per capita. However, the United States has reduced their energy-related greenhouse gas emissions by 12% from 2005 to 2018 while, in the same time period, the world's energy-related emissions have increased by 24%.
Arrogance and nationalism:
Americans are often stereotyped as arrogant. They are frequently depicted in foreign media as excessively nationalistic and obnoxiously patriotic, believing the United States is better than all other countries and patronizing foreigners. Americans may be seen by people of other countries as arrogant and egomaniacal. In 2009, then-U.S. President Barack Obama said that the United States has "shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive" towards its allies.
Jingoism:
Another common stereotype is that Americans want to be "the world's policemen", believing that the entire world needs their help – even if this results in preemptive military intervention – because they are somehow exceptional. This relatively recent stereotype spawned from Cold War and post-Cold War military interventions such as the Vietnam War and Iraq War, which many people opposed.
The United States is also stereotyped being a country with Hero syndrome in foreign media. The Hero syndrome manifests itself when the protagonist suffering the syndrome creates supposed, implied or ostensible crises only to eventually resolve them thereby becoming the savior of the day, the hero of the moment.
Workaholic culture:
While the stereotype of hard-working Americans is often a positive one, the United States has also been criticized in recent years as a workaholic culture. In The Huffington Post, Tijana Milosevic, a Serbian who had traveled to Washington, D.C. for a degree, wrote, "In fact my family and friends had observed that I shouldn’t have chosen America, since I would probably feel better in Western Europe — where life is not as fast paced as in the US and capitalism still has a 'human face.'"
She noted that "Americans still work nine full weeks (350 hours) longer than West Europeans do and paid vacation days across Western Europe are well above the US threshold." Researchers at Oxford Economics hired by the US Travel Association estimated that in 2014 "about 169m [vacation] days, equivalent to $52.4bn in lost benefits", went unused by American workers.Professor Gary L. Cooper argued Americans "have a great deal to learn from Europeans about getting better balance between work and life" and wrote:
The notion that working long hours and not taking holidays makes for a more productive workforce is, in my view, a managerial myth, with no foundation in organizational or psychological science. The human body is a biological machine, and like all machines can wear out. In addition, if employees don't invest personal disposal time in their relationships outside, with their family, loved ones and friends, they will be undermining the very social support systems they may need in difficult and stressful times
Obesity:
A very common stereotype of Americans, attested across the globe, is that they are overweight or obese. The "fat American" trope usually goes hand-in-hand with stereotypes of consumerism, but geopolitically, it has also been associated with expansionism and cultural imperialism. In 2017, a study found that overweight Asians were more likely to be seen as "American" than non-overweight Asians, though the same was not true for other ethnicities.
Driving habits:
Americans are seen to be over-reliant on personal automobiles, while neglecting other forms of transport such as biking or public transport. They are also seen to be easily confused by roundabouts.
You’re shifting the goalposts, January. First you claimed that “no other thing about the US is unique,” but now you’re retreating to “gun laws and culture are the one big difference.” That’s a significant narrowing of your original claim—almost like you realized you couldn’t defend it.
Let’s talk about those zebras. You're accusing others of looking for exotic explanations, when in fact, you're the one ignoring the herd of horses galloping across the field—poverty concentration, racial stratification, fatherless households, systemic mistrust of institutions, and yes, proximity to one of the most violent drug-trafficking corridors on Earth. That’s not reaching for zebras. That’s acknowledging the damn stampede.
Of course gun access is part of the equation, but treating it as the defining difference is reductionist. Switzerland, Canada, and Norway all have substantial gun ownership, yet their homicide rates are nowhere near ours. Why? Because they don’t have the same volatile cocktail of social decay, failed policy legacies, and demographic realities that we do. So no, it’s not a denial of the obvious. It’s a refusal to embrace a lazy narrative that treats correlation like gospel and ignores the hard work of context.
Lack of a national healthcare program. Moreover, our existing system is likely the most expensive healthcare in the world. Many have to choose between medication and food.
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No, not shifting any goal posts - am saying exactly what I have said all along- none of the things you mention are unique t o US, other western countries also have poverty ,gangs, fatherless households etc , none of these things are i n any way unique to US - and the one big difference in US compared t o all the other western countries is the gun laws and gun culture.
Both things exactly what I have said all along
But hey, if you want to think umpteen other things are the reason for the massive gun deaths difference so be it.
Because they have a different gun culture ,exactly what I have been saying all along. I can't see anywhere saying Canada has same rate of gun ownership as US though
You’re still missing the forest for the trees. You keep insisting none of these things are unique to the U.S., but the point isn't that they exist somewhere else, it's the scale, intensity, and intersections of those issues together that are uniquely American.
Yes, other Western countries have poverty, gangs, and broken homes, but they don't have 50+ years of urban policy disasters, destabilized inner cities, or a racial history that carved entire neighborhoods into generational ghettos. They don’t have anything close to the same concentration of these issues, nor do they sit on a border flooded by cartel warfare.
As for your fallback claim that it’s all about “gun culture”, fine, then define it. Because that term often gets thrown around like a rag doll, but it rarely gets defined. So, is it the number of guns? The attitude toward them? The lack of trust in police that makes people arm themselves? The frontier mythology?
Or maybe, just maybe, it’s a cultural response to the same systemic rot we’ve been talking about? Regarding Canada, they don’t have the same gun ownership rate, but it’s relatively high for a Western nation, and they’re geographically, economically, and culturally closer to the U.S. than most. Yet their homicide rates are significantly lower.
Again, if it were just about guns, we’d expect a much tighter correlation. So no, I’m not denying that gun access matters. I’m denying that it's the whole story. You’re taking one variable in a complex equation and pretending it explains the whole sum. That’s not analysis, that’s ideology.
Who_so_ever
Saved By Grace
- Location
- Grateful American
Hmm I wonder, there's a few other contenders.
NotCompSavvy
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Our system is a disaster , I was at the VA couple days ago and surprised how many young Veterans trying to see if they can get VA care because their jobs do not offer health care and they can not afford insurance . I suspect most will be denied .
My actual doctors visit took maybe an hour but I travelled the VA chatted , visited areas I could , ate in cafeteria an extra 4 hours and a depressing eye opener .
Twostep
Well-known Member
- Location
- Tiny town Oklahoma, OK
This is nothing but a stereotype which is being held onto as much as possible.
Twostep
Well-known Member
- Location
- Tiny town Oklahoma, OK
I thought that has been touched on already. There is often considerable difference beween facilities. OKC for example works hand in hand with OU and several huge medical systems. World class care and providers.
- Status