Another attack against Christmas

HermitHogan said:
“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”
― Stephen Colbert
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Gotta define: poor, needy.
Stephen Colbert...a mouth.
 

Food for thought ... Public Property is just that, public & is open to everyone with all viewpoints whether you agree with them or not. If a sign or display openly promotes violence, threats or hate, then I can see it being removed.

IMO, this sign was just as a reminder about how the real reason behind Christmas. You can believe in it or not, that is your choice. The sign wasn't put up by government, so I don't view it as being sponsored or supported by them.

By taking the sign down, wasn't free speech & freedom of religion being denied? Government sponsored religion tells you who to worship, how to worship & how much of your taxes will go to support that government religion. It will also have consequences if you don't do as they say.

And I agree @chic that actions like this looks more like an attack on a culture because of people who either don't like it or have another end goal in mind (whatever that may be).

Just my thoughts.
 

Here's why the sign was taken down...

Each year, the Knights of Columbus put up a nativity scene display as part of the downtown Christmas decorations. The Knights go through a permitting process to do this, according to the City of Kelowna.​
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This year, a sign saying "Keep Christ in Christmas" was part of the display, upsetting some people in the community, including the Kelowna Atheists, Skeptics, and Humanists Association (KASHA).​
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However, the sign has since been removed. According to the city, the sign wasn't part of the permit. It was taken down on Tuesday, Dec. 10.​

They tried to pull a fast one but got caught!

They weren't being very "Christ-like" with their act of deceivery.
 
KSav said:
Yes. That reminds me of when I was in journalism school back in the early 1990s. The professors asked us if we thought it would be OK if, for example, the KKK were to hold a demonstration adjacent to an event celebrating Martin Luther King Jr. Of course, we all indignantly said "no." They came back with "Well, free speech is not selective. If it applies to one group it should apply to all groups." That certainly gave me pause.
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Maybe too many are thinking 'free speech as long as it agrees with me'.
 
Lilac said:
Food for thought ... Public Property is just that, public & is open to everyone with all viewpoints whether you agree with them or not. If a sign or display openly promotes violence, threats or hate, then I can see it being removed.

IMO, this sign was just as a reminder about how the real reason behind Christmas. You can believe in it or not, that is your choice. The sign wasn't put up by government, so I don't view it as being sponsored or supported by them.

By taking the sign down, wasn't free speech & freedom of religion being denied? Government sponsored religion tells you who to worship, how to worship & how much of your taxes will go to support that government religion. It will also have consequences if you don't do as they say.

And I agree @chic that actions like this looks more like an attack on a culture because of people who either don't like it or have another end goal in mind (whatever that may be).

Just my thoughts.
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Sounded more like the application requires stipulation on every aspect of a display, including any text that will be included. The goal would be to prevent really hateful stuff from being approved. And as an article shared here, that text wasn't included in the application. Has nothing to do with it promoting hate, or preventing religion, etc.
 
 
I was raised with Christmas, though my family wasn't conventionally religious. Dad wasn't involved with anything formal. Mum had an Italian-Swiss Catholic mother, but she left the RC world and shifted into the Anglican/Episcopalian church... then became more independent.

We still enjoy exchanging Christmas gifts in my family. Most of my immediate neighbors and friends aren't involved in formal religion, and a bunch of us come together for a potluck on the Winter Solstice. Based on a comfortable common understanding, simply a nod to this point in the Earth's annual orbit when the 'day' is the shortest, and daylight will begin to grow lengthier.

Few of us are anti-Christian (I'm not).
 
On reading the article, I agree with the council taking the sign down - it wasn't part of the permitted display and allowing text sets a precedent that other approved displays can add messages after the fact.

No objection to a church or home or any private property adding the sign to their nativity scenes - of course people of other religions/ non-religious can put up displays with text too if they want to on private property.


ETA- the same rules apply to all groups. Interesting that some people see the rule being applied to them as ' an attack on christans' 🤷‍♀️
 
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Just last night I heard on the news that a local school district has ordered teachers to remove any all Christmas decorations from classrooms & halls.

Now, I am not religious, and do not believe but ..... that is IMO ridiculous .

We are and have always been a Judeo-Christian nation/society , and I hate that some are trying to change it, and others are seemingly allowing it to happen.

I long for the days when those two oceans separated us from the rest of the world, and we lived life our way. And for the most part they kept us safe
 
Capt Lightning said:
Remember that celebrating Christmas was banned in Scotland for 400 years and 25th Dec only became a public holiday in 1958.
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Before the Reformation in 1560, Christmas in Scotland had been a religious feasting day. Then, with the powerful Kirk frowning upon anything related to Roman Catholicism, the Scottish Parliament passed a law in 1640 that made celebrating ‘Yule vacations’ illegal. The baking of Yule bread was a criminal act!

Even after Charles II was restored to the throne, celebrating Christmas was frowned upon in Scotland for a long time. It wasn’t until 1958 that December 25th became a Scottish public holiday.
Which is why Hogmanay and New Year celebrations in Scotland became so important.

Hogmanay is the Scottish name for new year celebrations. It is not known exactly where the word comes from, although it is believed to come from the French word 'hoginane' meaning 'gala day'. It is thought to have first been used widely following Mary, Queen of Scots' return to Scotland from France in 1561.
 
The courthouse where I live plays bell songs in the mornings, mostly hymns. During this season, they're mostly Christmas hymns. I've questioned this in casual conversation with people in my community, as to what the City would do if there were objections. I was told that has happened, but nothing could be done about it, since it was only instrumental - no words.
 
January said:
On reading the article, I agree with the council taking the sign down - it wasn't part of the permitted display and allowing text sets a precedent that other approved displays can add messages after the fact.

No objection to a church or home or any private property adding the sign to their nativity scenes - of course people of other religions/ non-religious can put up displays with text too if they want to on private property.


ETA- the same rules apply to all groups. Interesting that some people see the rule being applied to them as ' an attack on christans' 🤷‍♀️
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Well said. In general when people of the same tribe bend the rules, rather than closing ranks like a common mob, people of good conscience should speak their truth calmly .. as has been done here by many.
 
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chic said:
But if we're not able to keep Christ in Christmas this is something of an attack on our culture. I did grow up in a Judeo - Christian culture and feel comfortable with that. How do you feel about this? Perhaps political correctness in not the real goal but the obliteration of a culture? It's something to consider.

:unsure:
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I don’t see anyone saying Christians shouldn’t keep Christ central to the holiday. But the sign can be taken as Christians quite inhospitably telling everyone else that they should too, as if Christmas was a private party, and it is their prerogative to impose rules and run the show. I can’t picture Jesus endorsing such attitudes.
 
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