Are there ANGELS?
- Thread starter Vedaarya
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rgp
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- Milford,OH
I'd like to know just how, someone?? digs us out of the ground [without making a mess] opens the casket , and reassembles our bones, then sends us to this heaven ?
If all this happens ? Why do they put us in the box in the first place?
And of course this reassemble guy really has his work cutout for him in the case of cremation.....
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
"Are you collapsing, millions?
Do you sense the creator, world?
Seek him above the starry canopy!
Above the stars must He dwell. "
This is a very awkward translation from the German of Schiller's famous poem, Ode to Joy. We are all familiar with it, from the stirring music Beethoven set these words to, in his 9th Symphony. Those words have always made me wonder: what is meant by "above the stars?" How can anything be above the stars?
It could mean that Schiller thought the night sky was like a flat ceiling, with shiny stars painted on it. But I think he was better than that. He probably meant "above and beyond.... beyond the beyond, beyond anything we can possibly imagine."
The poem asks that we celebrate joy, peace, and brotherhood. It says, "All men are brothers." Great words, and the "above the stars" part of it really makes us think! And that is as close as I come to religion.
Do you sense the creator, world?
Seek him above the starry canopy!
Above the stars must He dwell. "
This is a very awkward translation from the German of Schiller's famous poem, Ode to Joy. We are all familiar with it, from the stirring music Beethoven set these words to, in his 9th Symphony. Those words have always made me wonder: what is meant by "above the stars?" How can anything be above the stars?
It could mean that Schiller thought the night sky was like a flat ceiling, with shiny stars painted on it. But I think he was better than that. He probably meant "above and beyond.... beyond the beyond, beyond anything we can possibly imagine."
The poem asks that we celebrate joy, peace, and brotherhood. It says, "All men are brothers." Great words, and the "above the stars" part of it really makes us think! And that is as close as I come to religion.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Above the stars must he dwell, in German - Über den Sternen muss er wohnen. "
Schiller was a poet. This is the language of poetry.
Our last minister took similar poetic licence when conducting a funeral. Very aware that the assembled people included non christians and non believers, he tended to keep the God talk to a minimum. When at the end of the service it was time for the committal he would say, "And now we commit his/her spirit to the Star Maker." People were free to interpret this sentence in any way that was personally meaningful and no-one needed to feel alienated by the imagery.
Much of the bible is written in poetic language. Most religious texts employ similar devices to speak to the listening audience. Remember that written texts came long after most stories had been transmitted orally, usually in family or tribal groups. They were never intended to be scientific treatises. People who insist on looking for science will find only nonsense but those who are attuned to poetry may find meaning and wisdom.
Schiller was a poet. This is the language of poetry.
Our last minister took similar poetic licence when conducting a funeral. Very aware that the assembled people included non christians and non believers, he tended to keep the God talk to a minimum. When at the end of the service it was time for the committal he would say, "And now we commit his/her spirit to the Star Maker." People were free to interpret this sentence in any way that was personally meaningful and no-one needed to feel alienated by the imagery.
Much of the bible is written in poetic language. Most religious texts employ similar devices to speak to the listening audience. Remember that written texts came long after most stories had been transmitted orally, usually in family or tribal groups. They were never intended to be scientific treatises. People who insist on looking for science will find only nonsense but those who are attuned to poetry may find meaning and wisdom.
Trade
Well-known Member
Catlady
Well-known Member
- Location
- Southern AZ
Honestly people, I am NOT obsessed with religion. My proof is that if you check my posting history I am all over the place on this forum, except for Games, not into it. But here I go again about religion.
The Jewish, Christian, and Islam religion ALL have their origins from the Old Testament, yet look at how different all three are and how they all disdain and are at war with each other. And the Old Testament was derived from the Dead Sea Scrolls and they in turn got their inspirations and ideas from the Sumerians. Religions are like a net that grows wider and wider, one feeding on the other and changing all the time.
For example, Martin Luther started the Lutheran religion because he did not like the Catholic church selling indulgences. And thereby was born the Protestant religion and they in time split into many other versions because of disagreements. That is why we have so many religions in the world, you can't please everyone. I agree with Luther, the Catholics were greedy and their popes lived and still live extravagant lifestyles. But all the the other religions have their faults and abuse of power, too.
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{{Although reformers had many complaints about the Catholic Church of the 16th century, the practice of selling "indulgences" raised the most opposition. An indulgence was a payment to the Catholic Church that purchased an exemption from punishment (penance) for some types of sins. }}
The Jewish, Christian, and Islam religion ALL have their origins from the Old Testament, yet look at how different all three are and how they all disdain and are at war with each other. And the Old Testament was derived from the Dead Sea Scrolls and they in turn got their inspirations and ideas from the Sumerians. Religions are like a net that grows wider and wider, one feeding on the other and changing all the time.
For example, Martin Luther started the Lutheran religion because he did not like the Catholic church selling indulgences. And thereby was born the Protestant religion and they in time split into many other versions because of disagreements. That is why we have so many religions in the world, you can't please everyone. I agree with Luther, the Catholics were greedy and their popes lived and still live extravagant lifestyles. But all the the other religions have their faults and abuse of power, too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
{{Although reformers had many complaints about the Catholic Church of the 16th century, the practice of selling "indulgences" raised the most opposition. An indulgence was a payment to the Catholic Church that purchased an exemption from punishment (penance) for some types of sins. }}
The time has come,' the Walrus said,
To talk of many things:
Of shoes — and ships — and sealing-wax —
Of cabbages — and kings —
And why the sea is boiling hot —
And whether pigs have wings.'
I read the bible cover to cover several times during my college years. One thing that stands out is almost nothing good is said about women. Women are the cause of all evil, which led me to suspect the bible was written by men eager to subjugate women. Then the entire book seemed to be about subjugating others whose views differed from the author's.
What happened to the conversation about angels? If we argue theology, we'll be here forever and solve nothing.
Catlady
Well-known Member
- Location
- Southern AZ
I bought a bible so I could read it, but I was only able to read it in bits and pieces. It was useless, the writing is so repetitive and archaic and I found many passages that angered me. Yes, the women were treated as possessions, Eve was blamed for eating the ''apple'' and Adam was just her "innocent victim", God's favorites had hundreds of wives without the sting of adultery but it was okay to stone to death an adulterous wife.
This thread turned into theology because angels are part of the religious beliefs. Anyone is welcome to redirect the thread to angels, no one is stopping anyone from doing so.
Catlady
Well-known Member
- Location
- Southern AZ
You thief! That's it, you're going to hell!
Catlady
Well-known Member
- Location
- Southern AZ
Hmmm, I had no idea they were free to take, just to read while staying there.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
friend of mine, found one in a room way-back...it was cut-out, there was someone's pot stash in the cutout....
Catlady
Well-known Member
- Location
- Southern AZ
I never read my bible anymore, maybe I should cut it out and stash my cash in there. But, knowing my luck, my house invader will be the religious type and will take the bible home. I think the cash is safer in the freezer and labeled "Tofu".friend of mine, found one in a room way-back...it was cut-out, there was someone's pot stash in the cutout....
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