Equality for men

We're definitely not traveling in the same universe, Traveler. But that doesn't surprise me. Not at all. You seem like a very bitter person who life has disappointed.

I proposed to my late husband. I didn't get an engagement ring until we had been married for 25 years and even then, it sure didn't cost anywhere near two month's salary. Quite often I made more money than he did. While he was working on his doctorate, he took on the majority of the childraising, room-motherhood and was even a Brownie Scout leader, while I worked hard at a demanding, high-paid job with long hours. We were a partnership; sometimes he was the provider, sometimes I was....most of the time we shared the job.
 

Well, quite a few interesting replies. Before proceeding any further, I want to make it absolutely clear that I am NOT talking about taking away ANY equal rights for women. I speak ONLY about equal rights for men.

Now, because of the large response, I can not address each and everyone's post. What I can do, however, is take one item at a time and discuss and debate that.

Shall we 1st examine compulsory registration for the draft ? At age 18, every young man is required by law to go to the selective service office and register for the draft. Failure to do so carries a heavy federal charge. What are we actually talking about here ? We are talking about young men losing their freedom. True, today there is no actual draft BUT in time of national emergency the draft can instantly be instituted.

Think about that for a minute. You are going about your life and making plans for the future. Suddenly, the government says to you, "Stop whatever you are doing and report within X number of days for military service." You have just lost your freedom. You are, in essence, held captive by the government and they can ship you off to the battle zone where you may lose your life or have your body horribly mutilated.

This is NOT something that any female ever has to worry about. She has the special exemption because of her gender. She does not even have to register for the draft. There is no comparable situation where a young woman is required to die. That, my friends, is NOT equality in action.

I am NOT suggesting that young women be put in a situation where they may be required to engage in hand-to-hand combat. However, in todays modern hi-tech world, there are hundreds of military jobs which require ONLY a sound and nimble mind.

So, as a 1st step toward true equality, I suggest that all 18 year olds, both male AND female, be required by law, to register for the draft. Equal rights carry with it, equal responsibility.

If anyone can demonstrate that young women are not up to the task, then I will withdraw this suggestion.
 
In my line of work, worrying about negative consequences to an event which may never take place is referred to as anticipatory despair. Dicey trying to read the future. There is no way of knowing whether or not the draft will be instituted.
 

Shalimar said:
In my line of work, worrying about negative consequences to an event which may never take place is referred to as anticipatory despair. Dicey trying to read the future. There is no way of knowing whether or not the draft will be instituted.
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That is NOT a reply. It is dancing neatly away from the issue.
 
Hoot N Annie said:
I'm all for equality, and always treated the chicks who worked for me very well.....:cool:


On a more serious note, how do you feel about the custom of women changing their last name to match the man's name?
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I did it when I got married. When I got divorced, I simply undid everything I did when I got married. It's not legal to do that now; you have to have a court order to make the name change.

Some states don't allow a woman with children to revert to her birth name after divorce. I can't imagine why women living in those states change their names when they get married; I sure wouldn't. I worked for a retired judge who thought it was wrong that my name was different from my son's. I reminded him that his wife's five children from a previous marriage didn't have the same last name as hers.
 
Traveler said:
That is NOT a reply. It is dancing neatly away from the issue.
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Actually, it is a reply, just perhaps not one you approve of. In truth, it is very difficult to gage another person’s motivation. I am trained to do so, and I often fail. IMHO, what we have here is a difference of perspective, quite common between two individuals who view the world differently.
 
Shalimar said:
Actually, it is a reply, just perhaps not one you approve of. In truth, it is very difficult to gage another person’s motivation. I am trained to do so, and I often fail. IMHO, what we have here is a difference of perspective, quite common between two individuals who view the world differently.
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It is not a matter of me approving or disapproving. Completely avoiding the issue does not work.
 
I find it truly amazing that so many women deny what men across the globe experience everyday. I, naturally, can not even imagine what it feels like to give birth. Likewise no women can possibly imagine what it is to live as a man.

I am still patiently waiting for an answer to my question. Are young women up to the task of defending their country, in the military ?
Are women ready, willing and able to accept responsibilities that go hand-in-hand with equality or do women claim exemption because of gender ?
 
Traveler said:
I find it truly amazing that so many women deny what men across the globe experience everyday. I, naturally, can not even imagine what it feels like to give birth. Likewise no women can possibly imagine what it is to live as a man.

I am still patiently waiting for an answer to my question. Are young women up to the task of defending their country, in the military ?
Are women ready, willing and able to accept responsibilities that go hand-in-hand with equality or do women claim exemption because of gender ?
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I thought we already had women in the military. As for myself, the answer is no I probably couldn't do it. Just being honest.

I don't think I could even change a tire, too heavy.
 
Shalimar said:
Again, we have a difference of opinion, I believe I gave the issue the attention it merited, you feel otherwise. Have a lovely day, I am exiting this thread.
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If you can not directly and honestly answer the question, then perhaps it is best if you do exit. Avoiding the question clearly demonstrates an unwillingness to address real equality.
 
CeeCee said:
I thought we already had women in the military. As for myself, the answer is no I probably couldn't do it. Just being honest.

I don't think I could even change a tire, too heavy.
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Thank you for your honesty. Yes, we do indeed, have women in the military. Every one of them is a volunteer. None were ever drafted like men. But the bigger question remains. Should every young women accept full responsibility of being a citizen or do they claim exemption due to gender ?
 
Women just cannot admit they are treated preferentially compared to men.

They just can't.

But they are in plenty of aspects.

I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying it exists and has existed for centuries.

I wouldn't want a woman fighting next to me in the military. I would be trying to protect her instead of myself.

it's ingrained in men.
 
CeeCee said:
I don't think I could even change a tire, too heavy.
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I can change a flat tyre by changing the wheel, at least I could as a young woman and I did so a number of times. These days neither hubby nor I bother. First, tyres today seldom go flat and second we can simply call the NRMA roadside service.

About the draft, I did not know that America still requires 18 year olds to register. It is probably time to stop doing that. Conscription is only necessary in an all out global war. Even then, a fully professional volunteer military is more effective than using conscripts.

In purely biological terms, any society that fails to protect its young women and girls, the breeding stock for future generations, is doomed to slow decay and oblivion.
 
Warrigal said:
I can change a flat tyre by changing the wheel, at least I could as a young woman and I did so a number of times. These days neither hubby nor I bother. First, tyres today seldom go flat and second we can simply call the NRMA roadside service.

About the draft, I did not know that America still requires 18 year olds to register. It is probably time to stop doing that. Conscription is only necessary in an all out global war. Even then, a fully professional volunteer military is more effective than using conscripts.

In purely biological terms, any society that fails to protect its young women and girls, the breeding stock for future generations, is doomed to slow decay and oblivion.
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Ive never had to change one but know I couldn't now.
 
Traveler said:
True, some women do out earn men, but that is a tiny fraction of all 2 income households.
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Actually it's close to 30% that out-earn their husbands - I wouldn't call that a "tiny fraction".

There's also an age gap in women's earnings - younger women (20-24 years old) are far more likely (~90%) to have wage equity than older women (55-64), who are only at ~74%.

Source

And what about equality in the family court ? While it is true that a few men do gain full and complete custody of the children, the odds of that happening are slim if the woman is also seeking custody. This too needs to change.
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Perhaps more fathers should make their child support payments. Of course, the poverty-level stats influence this to a large degree.

IMO, women are simply more nurturing and the courts recognize this.

Seriously, people, can you even imagine what would happen if a man dared to say, " You're the woman, you're supposed to cook". LOL
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That is of course a two-edged sword. What if a women happened to tell you, "You're the man, you're supposed to be fixing the house" ?

The idea of pre-defined roles based on gender, while perhaps somewhat influenced by physical factors, is a failing paradigm. The newer generations recognize this.
 
Even as a young woman I was in no way fit physically nor mentally for combat-unless protecting the lives of my progeny. That's all I'm wired for in the way of combat.

Women are the vessels for the precious lives of our young; for nurturing them for 18 years or so.

So my opinion is no.

It's not just "gender" it's what the gender does.

Men fight to protect their territories, that's how they are wired, or what their instincts are. They actually somewhat enjoy war, re-enact wars, play war, watch "action movies" about war, glory of war, etc. Fighting is thrilling to them.

If a law was put into place for young women to be drafted as men are and as I think happened in Israel (not sure) I would abide by the law.

As things stand now, I think it's fair that men go and fight the wars. Women get to stay home support the war effort, give birth to and raise the next crop of cannon fodder for the wars men start. I think that's enough.

That's all I have to say. Anything more would be repetition.
 
Traveler (and others), are you aware that ever since the founding of modern Israel in 1949, women have been drafted into military service along with the men? Here is what Wikipedia tells us about it:

[h=2]Military service obligation[/h]

Officers in reserve duty before parachuting exercise. Reserve service may continue until the age of 51[SUP][2][/SUP]


In 1949, after the founding of the State of Israel, the Defense Service Law gave the IDF the authority to enlist any citizen. Draftees would then be required to show up for the draft in accordance with the military's decision to enlist them. Under this law, the period of service for men was 30 months and for women 18 months (although in accordance with a temporary order from January 10, 1968, six additional months were added to the mandatory service, 36 months for men and 24 months for women respectively.) The draft requirement applies to any citizen or permanent resident who has reached the age of 18, and in accordance with the law, the individuals who are exempt from the draft are dismissed for various reasons, such as incapability, medical problems, military personnel needs, etc. Many of the soldiers who complete their mandatory military service are later obligated to serve in a reserve unit in accordance with the military's needs.
 
Well, quite a few interesting replies. Before proceeding any further, I want to make it absolutely clear that I am NOT talking about taking away ANY equal rights for women. I speak ONLY about equal rights for men.

Now, because of the large response, I can not address each and everyone's post. What I can do, however, is take one item at a time and discuss and debate that.

Shall we 1st examine compulsory registration for the draft ? At age 18, every young man is required by law to go to the selective service office and register for the draft. Failure to do so carries a heavy federal charge. What are we actually talking about here ? We are talking about young men losing their freedom. True, today there is no actual draft BUT in time of national emergency the draft can instantly be instituted.

Think about that for a minute. You are going about your life and making plans for the future. Suddenly, the government says to you, "Stop whatever you are doing and report within X number of days for military service." You have just lost your freedom. You are, in essence, held captive by the government and they can ship you off to the battle zone where you may lose your life or have your body horribly mutilated.

This is NOT something that any female ever has to worry about. She has the special exemption because of her gender. She does not even have to register for the draft. There is no comparable situation where a young woman is required to die. That, my friends, is NOT equality in action.

I am NOT suggesting that young women be put in a situation where they may be required to engage in hand-to-hand combat. However, in todays modern hi-tech world, there are hundreds of military jobs which require ONLY a sound and nimble mind.

So, as a 1st step toward true equality, I suggest that all 18 year olds, both male AND female, be required by law, to register for the draft. Equal rights carry with it, equal responsibility.

If anyone can demonstrate that young women are not up to the task, then I will withdraw this suggestion.
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Camper, I was responding to the above post by Traveler on this subject. He was generalizing about men and women; I didn't hear him making any exception about Israelis.

When women are needed in military service, they get drafted, period. Although I don't know if they get as many combat assignments. It would be interesting to know that.
 

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