Gunmen open fire at Bondi Beach in Sydney.

Warrigal said:
That is exactly what is now on the cards. Our gun laws are not national although in each state they are fairly similar. The national government has control on which guns are prohibited imports that can be seized by customs.

The loophole is that one reason you are allowed to own a firearm is being a member of a gun club. Certain classes of firearms are prohibited. The older man, the father, was a member of a gun club and had six long guns. The Prime Minister is talking about restricting the number of guns allowed but I cannot see that doing very much. He is also talking about periodic reassessment of fitness to hold a gun licence. That does not apply now.

I have to subject myself to applying for a fitness to work with children check every so many years. My name is then checked against a national register of people whose behaviour has raised red flags. If I have come before the courts for certain offences my name would be on the register, and I would not be allowed anywhere near children. This applies to paid workers like nurses and also to people like me who volunteer at a preschool, a school, or who are youth leaders. Scout leaders, music teachers and anyone else who has access and contact with children must submit to periodic scrutiny

It makes sense to apply similar checks for gun ownership.
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The gun laws are the same here Warri....
 
Warrigal said:
According to the ABC video, the shooters were taking fire in a bit under 4 minutes. The claim that the police were tardy, taking 20 to 30 minutes to begin responding to the situation, is not sustainable.

On another note, the Blood Bank is appealing for blood donors to come forward. I am too old now, but my daughter will step up. Our blood banks do not pay for donations and do not charge hospitals for blood and plasma.
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actually a lot of reports are stating that the police were hiding behind their cars...one newsreader quickly corrected himself and said'' taking cover''.... while civilians were trying to fight the gunmen
 
RambleTamble said:
One essential question is: why was the 50-year-old shooter licensed to own firearms? Strict gun laws don't do any good if there are ways to get around them. Hopefully, after this, they'll re-evaluate their licensing criteria.
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The will to kill. Even with guns they made bombs.

Things change. I don't think the dad purchased guns with a terror attack in mind.The question is who became radical and did they radicalize the other
 
RambleTamble said:
Well, the Jews do have a history of being targeted simply for being Jewish, so that makes it a bit worse.
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I'm curious - how much time have you spent looking at, specifically, Christian persecution? A quick search suggests there are 380m persecuted Christians today.

Again - what happened was heinous, terrible, and a disgrace. I am in no way minimizing the acts of madness.

At the same time this event is happening, there has been some mass-shooter killing at Brown University. How is a death of one, worse, or more significant, than the other?
 
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apprently where they were staying ( living .?) is a share house that costs $90 a day

Copied from Apple News …****
The father and son believed to be the two terrorists who opened fire on a crowd of thousands at Bondi Beach on Sunday had been staying at a $90-a-night rental in Campsie.

It’s understood the rental in Campsie was shared accommodation. It is also advertised on Booking.com for about $90 a night.


Listed as “La Casa Di Dicembre”, the address is promoted as a homestay experience with a shared bathroom.


The listing states each room includes air-conditioning, a hair dryer, a refrigerator and shower facilities with a shared kitchen area.


It is understood there are at least six self-contained units within the property in Campsie.


Six key-box safes are bolted to the front of the property.


Federal officers were seen removing other residents from the property with their luggage on Monday.
 
The police have copped a lot of criticism and most of it unjustified. This article provides an overview of the challenges faced by police, especially the newer recruits.

MSN

On Tuesday, the NSW Police Force sent its heavy-hitters to Bondi. The ones trained for violent conflict, with access to the state’s most serious weapons. They were two days too late.

On Sunday, it was general duties police – the kind who usually deal with motor vehicle accidents, retail theft and pub brawls – who found themselves responsible for stopping the deadliest attack Australia has witnessed in 30 years. Some only graduated from the academy a few months ago. Some still live with their folks. None expected anything more than a hot shift at the beach.

Attendees estimated there were about four of them at the festival when the shooting began, multiple sources said (police refused to confirm; on Tuesday night, Premier Chris Minns said there were two, and reportedly later clarified to three). They were armed with pistols, which the vast majority fire once a year when they practise shooting at paper silhouettes at a distance of about 15 metres.

One minute they were watching kids blow bubbles, and the next they were facing two terrorists who were intent on causing mass fatalities. These gunmen deftly wielded what appeared to be bolt-action, high-powered rifles, which kill at long distances, and shotguns, which cause a terrible mess at short ones.

As one police veteran put it – on the condition of anonymity so they could speak freely – the local cops were outmatched and outgunned. “You don’t bring a pistol to fight a shotgun or a rifle,” they said.

Police are facing mounting questions about their response to Sunday’s massacre, at which 15 people died; whether top brass underestimated the risk to that event, whether the general duties police were trained well enough, and whether those young constables should have had better support and access to more effective weapons.

On Tuesday, NSW Police did not respond to questions about whether the Jewish community had requested stronger security than was provided. Police Commissioner Mal Lanyon said, “we base our policing response on the threat that exists at the time … there were police moving through there at all times”.

At a press conference, Minns* angrily rejected a question about rumours that some officers hid when the shooting began, and members of the crowd had asked for their weapons.

“They weren’t shot in the back as they were running away,” he said, referring to two officers who were seriously injured while trying to stop the attack. “They were shot in the front. I’m sorry to be graphic about it, but if there’s any suggestion that NSW Police didn’t live up to their responsibilities to the people of this state, it should be rejected.”

All NSW police are trained for an active shooter scenario. But the training they were given has changed in the past decade. Previously, they were told to contain, negotiate and wait for heavily armed officers to arrive. But a review of incidents from America found waiting was useless; most incidents lasted less than five minutes, while it might take half an hour or more for the Tactical Operations Unit to arrive from Surry Hills.

“The research told us that if we know it’s going to be over in five to 10 minutes, the people who were first there need to act,” said Associate Professor Gene Hodgins, who led the study and is now at Federation University. They are now told to engage and go forward; to move towards the gunman and, as one officer put it, “take him out”. It is called “Stop the Threat”.

This doesn’t mean they have to confront the shooter directly and expose themselves unnecessarily. They can take cover, assess the situation and move towards the shooter discreetly. One senior officer said onlookers may have mistaken taking cover for hiding. A police car was criticised for driving past without stopping, but that may have been a strategic decision based on balancing risk and benefit.

The Bondi detective who eventually shot one of the killers appeared to approach from behind a pole when the gunman wasn’t looking.

The problem with his “engage and go forward” strategy is that it’s terrifying. “There have been one or two instances in America where … even though the police officers have had the training or been told that they have to advance and engage, they have held back,” said Hodgins. “It takes courage to remember your training and override your natural fight or flight response.”

Bondi Westfield* hero Amy Scott followed the protocol. But she was an experienced officer armed with a gun against a single offender who had a knife. On Sunday, police were confronting at least two gunmen – they didn’t know how many there were – who had high-powered, long-range weapons and the tactical advantage of higher ground.

In contrast, the Bondi local police had pistols. An officer who did only the annual training would have to get close – within, say, 15 metres – to maximise their chances of accuracy. Multiple sources, on the condition of anonymity, said the detective who shot the older gunman at longer range was more experienced with firearms than most police.

“They’re not cowards,” one senior officer said of the general duties officers who found themselves as first responders on Sunday. “They’re human beings in uniforms. They’re gorgeous young kids trained well and doing their best, when the radio is chaos, there’s people screaming, a shotgun has blown people’s heads off. It was over in six and a half minutes.”

When Stop the Threat was introduced, the NSW Police Association called for every general duties police car to carry so-called long arms firearms, which would allow police to aim at active shooters from a longer and safer distance. They’re used in New Zealand (which does not arm its officers with pistols) and Canada.

That request was never granted. Only the Tactical Operations Unit and the Public Order and Riot Squad have access to and are trained to use Colt M4 assault rifles. But after Bondi, police are privately admitting that general duties officers may need access, even if it’s just a single rifle kept at the local station in case of an emergency.

“Things are going to look a lot different,” said one.

Another question for the Bondi terror attack inquiry is staffing levels. Senior officers say they have been having trouble filling their roster, particularly at a time of year when there are multiple events. There were several Hanukkah celebrations within Eastern Suburbs Command on Sunday night.

“You don’t have a lot of room for putting police on different events, which is problematic,” said one. “There’s a lot more events where they have less police.”

But the Bondi terrorist attack is likely to exacerbate this shortage. Outgunned, outmanned, in the firing line and now criticised. Who’d want to be a cop?

* Minns... Premier of NSW Chris Minns
* Refers to a previous knife attack at a suburban shopping complex.
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Trade said:
Would have been nice if they had had a gun. But when you outlaw guns, only outlaws have them. I know. It's a cliche. But there's a lot of truth in it. If this had happened in Miami beach it might have been a whole different story.
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Well we see many more of such incidents in USA and most are not different stories at all.

The more 'people with more guns to protect against more other people with guns' theory hasn't worked out too well there so highly unlikely we will try it here.
 
Trade said:
Would have been nice if they had had a gun. But when you outlaw guns, only outlaws have them. I know. It's a cliche. But there's a lot of truth in it. If this had happened in Miami beach it might have been a whole different story.
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The shooter had those guns quite legally he had a licence for his guns as a hunter.


The NSW Parliament is being recalled to toughen up guns laws.


NSW premier flags gun reforms and protest restrictions


We want less not more guns in people's hands.
 
Would like some clarification on the article in post #90 ... are there two different classes or types of officers? The article talked about General Duty police that handle minor incidents like car accident, retail thefts, bar fights, etc. & another group to handle violent conflicts.

Is it set up that you have officers that only perform general duties & another group who are only on a dedicated unit that their sole job is to respond on violent conflicts?
 
Lilac said:
Would like some clarification on the article in post #90 ... are there two different classes or types of officers? The article talked about General Duty police that handle minor incidents like car accident, retail thefts, bar fights, etc. & another group to handle violent conflicts.

Is it set up that you have officers that only perform general duties & another group who are only on a dedicated unit that their sole job is to respond on violent conflicts?
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Good question. There are specialised units within each state police force. I will try to find out some details for you.

Well that didn't take long. Hope this helps you understand how NSW police force is structured internally

Specialist roles​

As a NSW Police officer, you’ll have the opportunity to join a specialist area that’s the right fit for you.
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/recruitment/careers_and_salary/specialist_roles
 
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Warrigal said:
Good question. There are specialised units within each state police force. I will try to find out some details for you.

Well that didn't take long. Hope this helps you understand how NSW police force is structured internally

Specialist roles​

As a NSW Police officer, you’ll have the opportunity to join a specialist area that’s the right fit for you.
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/recruitment/careers_and_salary/specialist_roles
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Los Angeles PD's SWAT team is a dedicated unit since they have so much manpower & that is those officers sole job on the department. They don't go out on patrol or do any other jobs as part of their regular duty.

Other departments with a SWAT team have members who work regular assignments within their agency until there is a call out & they respond. Then you have regional teams made up of multiple departments & those officer also work regular assignments until a call out.
 
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