Here I go again, grieving over my problems with my son.

Well said.

I've had to make some very tough choices regarding my recovering addict son. I never loved him less, but distancing myself became necessary more than once.

How are you doing this morning @Shalimar?

I admire your determination to maintain your boundaries, to not be disrespected, and to detach when necessary. I know first hand how difficult that is....and for me, it's so much harder with my children than any other interpersonal relationship.

"He is averse to apologies,somewhat arrogant, very stubborn. He tends to think he has the answers without actually hearing the questions. We no longer fight, things were pleasant, however, I refuse to participate in a relationship which still lacks compassion. However reasonable he seemed to have become in other ways, that is the bottom line for me. Love is about, respect, trust, compassion, not heartbreak. He can wallow in being right, according to his lights. I choose peace and self respect at whatever the cost. No one controls the narrative of my life 🤗🌸"

I find your description of your son fascinating. There are aspects to your description that remind me of a situation I had with someone who has since become a friend, but at the outset she seemed arrogant, almost rude, prickly etc. A fellow dancer, she was barely an acquaintance so it didn't trouble me overly much. But we saw each other in a group setting at least once a week, if not more often. As time went on, she thawed a bit, but not much. I had occasion to work with her...she needed some coaching on technique and styling for a dance she was doing for a showcase, and she had thawed considerably by the end of that coaching session.

.........and you didn't need to know all that! 🤦‍♀️ Me and my motormouth!! Anyway, it finally came out, once she felt safe enough to tell me, that she had felt very intimidated by me and so was defensive before she ever actually KNEW me! I hadn't done a damn thing except be myself!

I'm sure you'd have known long since if he felt intimidated by you, but I wanted to mention it anyway, just in case. I am hearing how it's impacted you, but because I'm not IN the situation I can also look at your son's behavior from HIS perspective, and what might be motivating him to behave the way he does. And I also may be full of you know what! 😂 but some of what you mention sounds like defensive behavior rather than a personal attack...if that makes sense. IOW his behavior is WAY more about him and whatever demons he's battling than it is about anything you've done TO him.
I don’t have no clue as to what you are talking about, and I am confused. Are you saying your son became a drug addict because he was intimidated by you and/or you did something to him?

I have no ideal why anyone would become a drug addict except to alleviate physical pain. As soon as medical marijuana becomes available here, I am going to try it. My kids have been after me for years to do so.

I think saying mommy and daddy were mean to me so I take drugs is a total load of crap. My stupid adopted granddaughter was given the world on a silver platter. She totally threw her life away when she was given marijuana at a college party.

She was given a free totally completely free college education, housing and food included. She preferred marijuana. Now, at the age of 22, she sits in a homeless shelter in Colorado where she can get her marijuana. Has nothing to do with any of her parents bio or adopted. She made her choice.
 

What? Maybe I have misunderstood what you mean by “that’s all a parent can ask for”. All a parent can ask for is that their child be happy. A highly respectable productive job-what is that?
A janitor has a highly respectable productive necessary job. A pimp does not.

As for helping adult children in school or later in life, we help our children as needed till we die or they reject our help. It might be money, emotional support, physical support whatever however we can we help, we help. What new “variable” are you talking about.

Children change and grow. Relationships ebb and flow. Helping might take the form of tough love, which is very tough for parents and necessary for some adult children or even some parents. But, whatever, we choose to do towards our children, it should be done out of unconditional love, not anger. Out of our survival and theirs. This is the human condition.
Her son grew up to be self sufficient and high functioning member of society. Self sufficient being the key and actually the primary purpose of a parent-to raise their children. She did her job with flying colors.

And since the status of their relationship changed later in life I think, my opinion there is a new person in his life even if a co worker, neighbor etc that is influencing him. I will say as an adult once one has had time to reflect, put things in perspective with gained/new knowledge and experience that will influence that reflection. A new person in combination with life experiences and knowledge could sway an opinion even if indirectly or unintentionally

The worst parent-child dispute I witnessed were two adults over 50 with gray hair both acting out of character. The 'child' just changed peer groups after going through a break-up. Their attitude changed towards everyone in the family let alone their parent. I also have an alkie family member where were basically done forever, Their behavior has gotten worse, escalated,changed etc and I'm not just talking about intoxication. But their peer group changed over the last several years as well not they necessarily hung with the greatest role models.


Adults will be able to look at a relationship much differently than a child because of knowledge and experience. But that doesn't mean they won't contort, misinterpret or abuse it.
 
Her son grew up to be self sufficient and high functioning member of society. Self sufficient being the key and actually the primary purpose of a parent-to raise their children. She did her job with flying colors.

And since the status of their relationship changed later in life I think, my opinion there is a new person in his life even if a co worker, neighbor etc that is influencing him. I will say as an adult once one has had time to reflect, put things in perspective with gained/new knowledge and experience that will influence that reflection. A new person in combination with life experiences and knowledge could sway an opinion even if indirectly or unintentionally

The worst parent-child dispute I witnessed were two adults over 50 with gray hair both acting out of character. The 'child' just changed peer groups after going through a break-up. Their attitude changed towards everyone in the family let alone their parent. I also have an alkie family member where were basically done forever, Their behavior has gotten worse, escalated,changed etc and I'm not just talking about intoxication. But their peer group changed over the last several years as well not they necessarily hung with the greatest role models.


Adults will be able to look at a relationship much differently than a child because of knowledge and experience. But that doesn't mean they won't contort, misinterpret or abuse it.
I agree with some of what you said and disagree with some of what you said. The major disagreement I have is “self sufficient being the key”. The key to what? Plus, define self sufficient.

I have two disabled sons that I raised the same as my two what you might consider to be ”self sufficient” children. My ”self sufficient” children are extremely independent 🤦🏻‍♀️. Over the years they have had a cycle of disliking me and liking me. Distancing themselves from me, and becoming close again, only to repeat the pattern endlessly. Influenced, somewhat, by who they were with or not. Idk.

Yet, when my extremely independent self sufficient I am smarter than you will ever be son had a serious heart issue one day, which resulted in open heart surgery, he called me. Not his friends, not his significant other, not the paramedics, me. The person who cannot chew gum and walk 😂.

Every human being on the planet needs help throughout their lives. IMO there is no such thing as a self sufficient human being. There are ranges of dependent people and independent people, but there are no self sufficient people. And parents, when their child is born or adopted, are parents forever.
 

The key issue for Shalimar is still unclear to me. It seems that it was lack of compassion was mentioned. Not everyone reacts with physical or verbal affection. Is it just two different types of personalities? It doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you.
 
The key issue for Shalimar is still unclear to me. It seems that it was lack of compassion was mentioned. Not everyone reacts with physical or verbal affection. Is it just two different types of personalities? It doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you.
He is verbally affectionate. Comfortable with physical affection also. However, he, for reasons of his own, believes I deserve neither compassion or emotional support. Apparently I forfeited that

while he was a teen? Our personalities are very similar, as he says himself, but he has his father‘s judgemental approach toward some things. Once he gets an idea in his head, it sticks like glue, no logic required. This Is about an imbalance of power, a need to control, a willingness to repeatedly

hurt the other person under the guise of being right. For fifteen years plus, I struggled to find a healthy place for us to be a family, but, I have been a slave, I will not give up my sovereignty to appease him. Better to grow old and die alone than crawl for love.
 
He is verbally affectionate. Comfortable with physical affection also. However, he, for reasons of his own, believes I deserve neither compassion or emotional support. Apparently I forfeited that

while he was a teen? Our personalities are very similar, as he says himself, but he has his father‘s judgemental approach toward some things. Once he gets an idea in his head, it sticks like glue, no logic required. This Is about an imbalance of power, a need to control, a willingness to repeatedly

hurt the other person under the guise of being right. I have been a slave, I will not give up my sovereignty to appease him. Better to grow old and die alone than crawl for love.
I agree. The times my children left me behind and needed space they were given space. My daughter repeatedly wanted us to move nearer to her even though we only lived, in miles, 15 miles apart, if that. When we finally ended up moving closer, a couple months later, she sold her house and moved about 30 miles further out.

What? She said she got a job further out so she moved. Ok. But we decided she wanted more distance and she did seem to be emotionally more distant. But she repeatedly wanted her brother to move near to her and he refused. He lived near his work.

Then she put her house up for sale and moved to Texas, upset us all, especially her brother who is now stuck with caring for his disabled brothers when we die, and us till we die. Not to mention he thought she should have talked to him about it Etc.

Now she says to us we should move to Texas. What? I remind her how well that turned out before. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I will never leave my disabled sons, never. I have told her that. Since she has moved to Texas, if I give an opinion, I am told I am not in charge of what she does. 😮. 😂

I am her sounding board, I sometimes agree with her, I sometimes don‘t. When I don’t she will refuse to talk to me for a couple of weeks. Oh, well. This is our first holiday season without her, I miss her so much. I had imagined how my life would be as I aged, her by my side, helping.

What a silly goose I was. 🤣
 
I agree. The times my children left me behind and needed space they were given space. My daughter repeatedly wanted us to move nearer to her even though we only lived, in miles, 15 miles apart, if that. When we finally ended up moving closer, a couple months later, she sold her house and moved about 30 miles further out.

What? She said she got a job further out so she moved. Ok. But we decided she wanted more distance and she did seem to be emotionally more distant. But she repeatedly wanted her brother to move near to her and he refused. He lived near his work.

Then she put her house up for sale and moved to Texas, upset us all, especially her brother who is now stuck with caring for his disabled brothers when we die, and us till we die. Not to mention he thought she should have talked to him about it Etc.

Now she says to us we should move to Texas. What? I remind her how well that turned out before. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I will never leave my disabled sons, never. I have told her that. Since she has moved to Texas, if I give an opinion, I am told I am not in charge of what she does. 😮. 😂

I am her sounding board, I sometimes agree with her, I sometimes don‘t. When I don’t she will refuse to talk to me for a couple of weeks. Oh, well. This is our first holiday season without her, I miss her so much. I had imagined how my life would be as I aged, her by my side, helping.

What a silly goose I was. 🤣
Not silly goose, wise woman. 🥰🥰
 
OK, Shali has me on ignore, but I gotta say a few things

I gave my kids 15...maybe 20 years of my life

Now, they get theirs
Their life
Learning things, on their own

All this hand wringing is a waste of energy and time

Me? I want what's left for me

If they estrange me (I so hope for that), so be it
Go
live
be
struggle
learn
get old

Talk to me every six months or so
Keep it light
 
OK, Shali has me on ignore, but I gotta say a few things

I gave my kids 15...maybe 20 years of my life

Now, they get theirs
Their life
Learning things, on their own

All this hand wringing is a waste of energy and time

Me? I want what's left for me

If they estrange me (I so hope for that), so be it
Go
live
be
struggle
learn
get old

Talk to me every six months or so
Keep it light
I'm curious, @Gary O', is this also how your wife feels about the kids, not to mention the grands?
 
It's difficult for me to imagine the gut-wrenching pain of being estranged from one of my children. I'm sometimes closer and sometimes a bit more distant with each of them, but have never been on the outs for more than a week.

My heart goes out to you, @Shalimar, my friend. I wish I could provide peace and comfort to your hurting soul.
♥♥♥♥♥
 
It's difficult for me to imagine the gut-wrenching pain of being estranged from one of my children. I'm sometimes closer and sometimes a bit more distant with each of them, but have never been on the outs for more than a week.

My heart goes out to you, @Shalimar, my friend. I wish I could provide peace and comfort to your hurting soul.
♥♥♥♥♥
But, my love, you do. Didn’t you know that? 🥰🥰💕💕
 
OK, Shali has me on ignore, but I gotta say a few things

I gave my kids 15...maybe 20 years of my life

Now, they get theirs
Their life
Learning things, on their own

All this hand wringing is a waste of energy and time

Me? I want what's left for me

If they estrange me (I so hope for that), so be it
Go
live
be
struggle
learn
get old

Talk to me every six months or so
Keep it light
Hmm, you might be related to my husband, Mr Me Me Me Me first 😳😧
 
Not at all
It's for everyone
Them just as much as my lady and I
No hangers on....go out.....live
Does living only have one way, Garr, the way you see it? I think you're blustering, Young Man (someone held the door for me today and called me 'young lady' :mad:) 'cause, prima facie, it feels the opposite of warm. It sounds cold.
 
is this also how your wife feels about the kids, not to mention the grands?
Oh. let's mention the grands.... our wunderkind
Our gifts
Our blessings

My lady does all the worrying
Matter of fact, she got so enmeshed it got her so low she couldn't get outa bed
She went to a shrink
He said she was a gunny bagger
Carried aaaaaalll this stuff around
Ever once in a while, she'd set it down, take something out, show it to folks
Then, put it back in the bag, throw it over her shoulder, and trudge on

It struck a chord with her.....changed her life
We enjoy each other....to the max
No more wasting precious days, slogging thru

She still worries a bit.....but not so frigging much

Adult kids need to be just that.....adults
I sure as hell didn't hang around my folks
Left early
No regrets
Happy
 
Does living only have one way, Garr, the way you see it? I think you're blustering, Young Man (someone held the door for me today and called me 'young lady' :mad:) 'cause, prima facie, it feels the opposite of warm. It sounds cold.
I'm sure there's as many ways as there's people
I just know what makes my lady and I happy
Don't wish to come off as cold
I do storm sometimes

'prima facie'?
Hope I'm old enough to go more by experience than first impression
If not.....there's no hope for me
Too old to learn
Set me on a shelf
Dust me ever so often

someday.jpg
 
If you say so.

I see some hostility at work. Do you still go to therapy? South of your border, most licensed therapists must have a therapist.
 

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