Here I go again, grieving over my problems with my son.

Autumn72 said:
This is also my grieve.
My story is tragic to the max.
Yet i have watched youtube on adopted grown children found and of course is shown only the good parts of this matter.
I stupidly in dreamland thought that old commercial of " reach out and touch someone" was a good idea.
As I've read along this journey, "that good intentions never go unpunished"...catches my reality "Murphy's law ".
Many years go by as that word "ostracizing" pops up a word akong side of "estrange"....the pain is over-whelming that several times i felt like turning myself into "spring harbor" never to throw in the towel yet can anyone celebrate every holiday alone....after four daughters. I have made my mistakes and believed they would come willingly in my heart they live....recently i found out my estranged sister's address..i wrote her that i realized where my daughter was hiding...she did not like what i had to say. Though she is married recently living in his house. She had to yell out so he would hear how good she is and i am the evil of us both.
She did call me with s few digs and insults in a creative positioned area of our talk when i went forward to try to forgive.
She had my new email phone number and old address meant to give to my daughter. She knows where she is....yet said. If she tells me she "Brooke" will not talk to her ever. Yet when she told me that she heard from my daughter, she said that if her son (her only one) didnt want to talk to her she would not talk to him.
Two of my sisters had boys no daughters so you see the jealousy later in years gone by.
This is grown too long and so i will rest my case. Even though ive told her that i was the one who gave birth to her and i was the one who changed her nappies......it didnt faze her a bit.
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Ohhh, how heartbreaking for you. Sending love, hugs, and prayers your way. You are not alone.🤗🥰💐
 

Lewkat said:
Well, I have one son an only child. We were very close for years and then came the teen years. My mom warned me I'd get pay back. Did I ever have my hands full. He became disrespectful, started drinking at age 15, skipped school, etc. This from a straight A student just a couple of years prior. So, it was tough love, baby, and then he decided to compete with me. He did finish high school at 16, even though he continued to drink off and on. But he was determined he would out do me intellectually. Where this came from I shall never know. He did as a youth on rainy days sit and read the Encyclopedia Brittanica for pleasure and soaked what he learned like a sponge.. In addition when it came to anything mechanical, he could take it apart and put it together in better shape than before. I would always praise him for his talents and brains. We were not distance in telling each other how much we loved one another and hugs were frequent. Still are to this day. I introduced him to his wife and they dated for awhile. She was extremely jealous of him and also of his relationship with me. For he ultimately respected me for not taking any guff from him and more or less straightening him out. He finally broke up with her and they did not speak for 6 years. This girl had many issues. She was bi-polar and border line schizo. Her mother died at 37 from brain cancer when she was 13 and her sister 11. Her dad was a traveling salesman and rarely around, so the grandparents were in charge. They did not see to it that she always took her meds and there was always a problem in the family dynamic. At any rate, my son's path crossed hers after 6 years and they got back together. Everyone was delighted buy me, but I did not show it at all. I made a real show of welcoming her as the daughter I never had, etc. She worked on my kid, so that, they both wound up being quite unkind to me. As a matter of fact, she was downright cruel and her vituperations were to the point that had I had a gun, I'd have happily killed her. I banished both of them from my life which lasted for over 2 years. They had moved away, but of course I knew this from friends. Finally, he could stand it no longer and approached me, contrite and begging me to see him. I of course said ok, with the caveat to leave her home. We had a loving reunion and then one day she sent me a letter with abject apologies for her behavior, recognizing now that she was immature, etc. I think that came from her therapist and her father. Well after that we had a cautious relationship and she never interfered my son's affections for me. I told her that I was not her enemy, and that we both loved him. A mother's love is quite different than that of a wife. We did have a few good times together, and when she became ill with cancer, I took care of her. She went fast, only 4 months after her diagnosis. Now, my son is leaning on me like a little boy again and I am making sure he doesn't continue along those lines. It's tough, Shalimar with kids. They get a mind set and we have to deal with it the best way we know how. Did it hurt? You bet. But, I was a therapist myself at one time, so I had many tools to work with. Not everyone is that fortunate. I pray your situation improves daily. The child does not have permission to criticize you ever unless you are druggie or an outright criminal and it would do to remind him of this. You are his mom and he either accepts that fact or will lose you forever. Kids fear that deep down.

You are in my thoughts daily.
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Thank you so much lewkat. I am pleased that things are much better between you and your son. Sometimes it seems that being a therapist hasn’t been of much use in dealing with my son, but I know I would have fallen apart without the skills sets I learned at university and acquired dealing with clients. Still learning.
 
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Shalimar said:
By now, one would think I would have accepted that I just can’t fix this. For whatever reason, my son has issues when it comes to his mother. Do I have a clue what they are? Not really. Does he? I have my doubts. Regardless, I choose distance over being complicit in a relationship which lacks compassion, no matter how pleasant he can be on other fronts. But, oh, it hurts. He is the only family I have. He has told me more than once I am the most loving and supportive person he has ever met. Ok, why isn’t that enough?
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Hi Shalimar very sorry to hear about your son, I too have situation with my daughter who told me I am narcissist and toxic, I think I'm far from it, hurts like heck cried for 2 weeks, she done my shopping now I have no one. I pray for all who is going through our situation.
 
Morningglory said:
Hi Shalimar very sorry to hear about your son, I too have situation with my daughter who told me I am narcissist and toxic, I think I'm far from it, hurts like heck cried for 2 weeks, she done my shopping now I have no one. I pray for all who is going through our situation.
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There are a lot of us, in very different ways, or due to very different scenarios leading up to the estrangement.

If there is any silver lining or comfort to be found, it is possibly when you know, or are pretty well certain, your child is leading a good/successful/happy !I've no matter, (bittersweet though even that is of course). :)
 
Shalimar said:
MorningGlory, thanks for your support, I am so sorry you are going through this with your daughter. Terrible pain, at a very scary point in time. I pray she changes her mind and things improve between you. Sending hugs.🤗💐
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Thank you Shalimar, yes very scary, I'm 83 and disabled from back surgery and can't stand very long at a time, very stressful ,she has done this before for 10 yr and 4 yrs I dont have that long to wait again, I hope I don't sound like a narcissis now. Is so forgive me.
 
Shalimar said:
I choose peace and self respect at whatever the cost. No one controls the narrative of my life 🤗🌸
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Maybe your son feels the same way. I have an estranged adopted daughter that chose to side with her mother, when we divorced. Like you, I had to choose peace and self respect, and control the narrative of my life as well. We all make those choices, I guess.
 
Morningglory said:
Thank you Shalimar, yes very scary, I'm 83 and disabled from back surgery and can't stand very long at a time, very stressful ,she has done this before for 10 yr and 4 yrs I dont have that long to wait again, I hope I don't sound like a narcissis now. Is so forgive me.
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Oh my, MorningGlory, how terrible for you! There is nothing to forgive, you don’t sound like a narcissist at all. Anyone in your position would need help. Regarding your daughter, perhaps, if she can convince herself you are in the wrong, she can excuse her own behaviour. Perhaps she

simply needed a “reason “ to stop helping you. In the end, I think it is all about power and control, and her need to punish you, while not being accountable for her own choices. Sending love and prayers to you. 🥰💕💐
 
Nathan said:
Maybe your son feels the same way. I have an estranged adopted daughter that chose to side with her mother, when we divorced. Like you, I had to choose peace and self respect, and control the narrative of my life as well. We all make those choices, I guess.
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Perhaps he does. I am sorry you had to deal with something similar. At times, being a parent can be heartbreaking.
 
I never realized so many of us parents were dealing with the same kind of heartaches from our children. How sad :( Children can be very cruel, can't they? I figure I'm getting payback for all the years I didn't have a good relationship with my mother, so, now, my 45 year old son is doing the same thing to me.

I had a domineering, verbally abusive mother. She wore my father down into a weak, pathetic man that had no mind of his own. I was 19 when I married the first man that came along just to get out of the house and away from her criticism and nasty comments to me. The "marriage" was a huge mistake and I moved back home. This was another huge mistake because it gave them both the opportunity to criticize me even more. This was a pattern for me that lasted my whole life. I'd get bouts of guilty thoughts that I should try to be a better daughter but every time I called her, she was very curt and disapproving. I lived in another state for many years hoping distance would be the best thing for both of us. My conscience would nag at me all the time. It was hell. I knew what would happen if I contacted her, but I felt guilty if I didn't.

My father died in 1987 (he was only 76) and she was left with a house she couldn't take care of. She was crippled with arthritis. I offered a place to live with me and I told her I'd help her sell the house. She actually agreed. I quit my job and left my family to go help her. I lived 400 miles away at the time. When I got there, we were sitting on the porch and I was asking her what she wanted to do with the house. She looked at me and said, "Are you crazy? This is my home and I'm staying here." I was stunned. The next day, she had a pre-op appointment for a knee replacement and I told her she needed to take all her meds with her so they knew what she was taking. She told me I didn't know what I was talking about (even though I had been in nursing for many years). So, we went to her appointment and the first thing the nurse asked her was if she brought her meds with her. I went out to the waiting room and when she came out and sat down, she looked at me and said, "What the hell's the matter with you?" Everybody in there heard her but I was so embarrassed, I couldn't say anything. When we got back to the house, I packed and left. She was screaming at me and told me to never come back.

A few years went by, and she seemed to "soften" a little. I found out the neighbor woman and her husband next door had been "taking care" of her. These people were notorious for doing this to other lonely women so they could get whatever they had. My husband and I never knew this until we were visiting in town a few years later and my mother announced that she had a "new" family. I was not allowed to be alone with her to talk to her. They were always there. Her neighbor took me aside and told me, "You just have to know how to play the game (with her)."

I wanted to know what my mother's medical condition was so I went to her doctor's office and got the paperwork for her to sign so I could be informed of her medical situations. She refused to sign it and called the neighbors to come over and she told them that she was in danger from me and my husband. She wanted them to call the police to have us removed from her property! They came running over and got her calmed down and didn't call the police. I explained I just wanted to know what was going on with her. My mother looked at me and said, "You're nothing but a whore and a slut. I've only made two mistakes in my life...one was marrying your father and the other was adopting you." David and I left and I never had any contact with her after that. I was 51 by then and decided I'd had enough. She died 3 years later. I almost didn't make the trip to go to the funeral. We were living in TX by then and she was in MI. Her neighbor and "new family" made all the funeral arrangements. My mother always had beautiful clothes but by the time she died she didn't even own a dress to be buried in. When I saw her in the casket, she had on some borrowed ugly dress on that she would have never worn when she was alive.

I found out soon after that the neighbors "inherited" everything my mother had, including the house.

This is a long explanation of why I think my toxic relationship with my son is the way it is is because I'm reaping what I sowed. By neglecting my mother as her daughter is coming back to haunt me.
 
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Colleen said:
I never realized so many of us parents were dealing with the same kind of heartaches from our children. How sad :( Children can be very cruel, can't they? I figure I'm getting payback for all the years I didn't have a good relationship with my mother, so, now, my 45 year old son is doing the same thing to me.

I had a domineering, verbally abusive mother. She wore my father down into a weak, pathetic man that had no mind of his own. I was 19 when I married the first man that came along just to get out of the house and away from her criticism and nasty comments to me. The "marriage" was a huge mistake and I moved back home. This was another huge mistake because it gave them both the opportunity to criticize me even more. This was a pattern for me that lasted my whole life. I'd get bouts of guilty thoughts that I should try to be a better daughter but every time I called her, she was very curt and disapproving. I lived in another state for many years hoping distance would be the best thing for both of us. My conscience would nag at me all the time. It was hell. I knew what would happen if I contacted her, but I felt guilty if I didn't.

My father died in 1987 (he was only 76) and she was left with a house she couldn't take care of. She was crippled with arthritis. I offered a place to live with me and I told her I'd help her sell the house. She actually agreed. I quit my job and left my family to go help her. I lived 400 miles away at the time. When I got there, we were sitting on the porch and I was asking her what she wanted to do with the house. She looked at me and said, "Are you crazy? This is my home and I'm staying here." I was stunned. The next day, she had a pre-op appointment for a knee replacement and I told her she needed to take all her meds with her so they knew what she was taking. She told me I didn't know what I was talking about (even though I had been in nursing for many years). So, we went to her appointment and the first thing the nurse asked her was if she brought her meds with her. I went out to the waiting room and when she came out and sat down, she looked at me and said, "What the hell's the matter with you?" Everybody in there heard her but I was so embarrassed, I couldn't say anything. When we got back to the house, I packed and left. She was screaming at me and told me to never come back.

A few years went by, and she seemed to "soften" a little. I found out the neighbor woman and her husband next door had been "taking care" of her. These people were notorious for doing this to other lonely women so they could get whatever they had. My husband and I never knew this until we were visiting in town a few years later and my mother announced that she had a "new" family. I was not allowed to be alone with her to talk to her. They were always there. Her neighbor took me aside and told me, "You just have to know how to play the game (with her).

I wanted to know what my mother's medical condition was so I went to her doctor's office and got the paperwork for her to sign so I could be informed of her medical situations. She refused to sign it and called the neighbors to come over and she told them that she was in danger from me and my husband. She wanted them to call the police to have us removed from her property! They came running over and got her calmed down and didn't call the police. I explained I just wanted to know what was going on with her. My mother looked at me and said, "You're nothing but a whore and a slut. I've only made two mistakes in my life...one was marrying your father and the other was adopting you." David and I left and I never had any contact with her after that. I was 51 by then and decided I'd had enough. She died 3 years later. I almost didn't make the trip to go to the funeral. We were living in TX by then and she was in MI. Her neighbor and "new family" made all the funeral arrangements. My mother always had beautiful clothes but by the time she died she didn't even own a dress to be buried in. When I saw her in the casket, she had on some borrowed ugly dress on that she would have never worn when she was alive.

I found out soon after that the neighbors "inherited" everything my mother had, including the house.

This is a long explanation of why I think my toxic relationship is the way it is is because I'm reaping what I sowed. My neglecting my mother as her daughter is coming back to haunt me.
Click to expand...
I weep for you as I read this. My dear, please do not continue to buy into your mother’s false and toxic reality. Most malignant narcissists have a scapegoat, I believe you were hers. You, like so many of us, are a victim of gaslighting. You did not neglect her, you backed away to protect

yourself from a woman who would have destroyed you without a thought. To those of my clients who have narcissistic parents, my advise is always the same, walk away, walk away, walk away. Their pathology is virtually incurable, and can destroy your life. Whatever problems you may

have with your son are in no way a karmic judgment from some vicious and intolerant Deity/Universe. It is even possible he has narcissistic qualities also. Certainly, his behaviour toward you is exceedingly cruel and mindblowingly self absorbed. Please give yourself

permission to be human, worthy, vulnerable. It is a huge credit to your humanity that you remain a kind person with the ability to feel love and compassion for others. Their inability/unwillingness to treat you with the respect and dignity you deserve is on them, not on you. I shall hold you in my heart, I wish you the very best. You ARE deserving of no less, my friend. 🥰
 
Colleen said:
I never realized so many of us parents were dealing with the same kind of heartaches from our children. How sad :( Children can be very cruel, can't they? I figure I'm getting payback for all the years I didn't have a good relationship with my mother, so, now, my 45 year old son is doing the same thing to me.

I had a domineering, verbally abusive mother. She wore my father down into a weak, pathetic man that had no mind of his own. I was 19 when I married the first man that came along just to get out of the house and away from her criticism and nasty comments to me. The "marriage" was a huge mistake and I moved back home. This was another huge mistake because it gave them both the opportunity to criticize me even more. This was a pattern for me that lasted my whole life. I'd get bouts of guilty thoughts that I should try to be a better daughter but every time I called her, she was very curt and disapproving. I lived in another state for many years hoping distance would be the best thing for both of us. My conscience would nag at me all the time. It was hell. I knew what would happen if I contacted her, but I felt guilty if I didn't.

My father died in 1987 (he was only 76) and she was left with a house she couldn't take care of. She was crippled with arthritis. I offered a place to live with me and I told her I'd help her sell the house. She actually agreed. I quit my job and left my family to go help her. I lived 400 miles away at the time. When I got there, we were sitting on the porch and I was asking her what she wanted to do with the house. She looked at me and said, "Are you crazy? This is my home and I'm staying here." I was stunned. The next day, she had a pre-op appointment for a knee replacement and I told her she needed to take all her meds with her so they knew what she was taking. She told me I didn't know what I was talking about (even though I had been in nursing for many years). So, we went to her appointment and the first thing the nurse asked her was if she brought her meds with her. I went out to the waiting room and when she came out and sat down, she looked at me and said, "What the hell's the matter with you?" Everybody in there heard her but I was so embarrassed, I couldn't say anything. When we got back to the house, I packed and left. She was screaming at me and told me to never come back.

A few years went by, and she seemed to "soften" a little. I found out the neighbor woman and her husband next door had been "taking care" of her. These people were notorious for doing this to other lonely women so they could get whatever they had. My husband and I never knew this until we were visiting in town a few years later and my mother announced that she had a "new" family. I was not allowed to be alone with her to talk to her. They were always there. Her neighbor took me aside and told me, "You just have to know how to play the game (with her)."

I wanted to know what my mother's medical condition was so I went to her doctor's office and got the paperwork for her to sign so I could be informed of her medical situations. She refused to sign it and called the neighbors to come over and she told them that she was in danger from me and my husband. She wanted them to call the police to have us removed from her property! They came running over and got her calmed down and didn't call the police. I explained I just wanted to know what was going on with her. My mother looked at me and said, "You're nothing but a whore and a slut. I've only made two mistakes in my life...one was marrying your father and the other was adopting you." David and I left and I never had any contact with her after that. I was 51 by then and decided I'd had enough. She died 3 years later. I almost didn't make the trip to go to the funeral. We were living in TX by then and she was in MI. Her neighbor and "new family" made all the funeral arrangements. My mother always had beautiful clothes but by the time she died she didn't even own a dress to be buried in. When I saw her in the casket, she had on some borrowed ugly dress on that she would have never worn when she was alive.

I found out soon after that the neighbors "inherited" everything my mother had, including the house.

This is a long explanation of why I think my toxic relationship with my son is the way it is is because I'm reaping what I sowed. By neglecting my mother as her daughter is coming back to haunt me.
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No it’s not!! It just does not work that way.
 
Shalimar said:
I weep for you as I read this. My dear, please do not continue to buy into your mother’s false and toxic reality. Most malignant narcissists have a scapegoat, I believe you were hers. You, like so many of us, are a victim of gaslighting. You did not neglect her, you backed away to protect

yourself from a woman who would have destroyed you without a thought. To those of my clients who have narcissistic parents, my advise is always the same, walk away, walk away, walk away. Their pathology is virtually incurable, and can destroy your life. Whatever problems you may

have with your son are in no way a karmic judgment from some vicious and intolerant Deity/Universe. It is even possible he has narcissistic qualities also. Certainly, his behaviour toward you is exceedingly cruel and mindblowingly self absorbed. Please give yourself

permission to be human, worthy, vulnerable. It is a huge credit to your humanity that you remain a kind person with the ability to feel love and compassion for others. Their inability/unwillingness to treat you with the respect and dignity you deserve is on them, not on you. I shall hold you in my heart, I wish you the very best. You ARE deserving of no less, my friend. 🥰
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Oh Colleen I cried 😥 reading your story, I wish I could give you some good advice, but I can't, but Shalimar certainly did .Stay strong and stay well.😊
 
Shalimar said:
Oh my, MorningGlory, how terrible for you! There is nothing to forgive, you don’t sound like a narcissist at all. Anyone in your position would need help. Regarding your daughter, perhaps, if she can convince herself you are in the wrong, she can excuse her own behaviour. Perhaps she

simply needed a “reason “ to stop helping you. In the end, I think it is all about power and control, and her need to punish you, while not being accountable for her own choices. Sending love and prayers to you. 🥰💕💐
Click to expand...
Thanks Shalimar, she does like to have control, I think you got it right.😊
 
Shalimar said:
I weep for you as I read this. My dear, please do not continue to buy into your mother’s false and toxic reality. Most malignant narcissists have a scapegoat, I believe you were hers. You, like so many of us, are a victim of gaslighting. You did not neglect her, you backed away to protect

yourself from a woman who would have destroyed you without a thought. To those of my clients who have narcissistic parents, my advise is always the same, walk away, walk away, walk away. Their pathology is virtually incurable, and can destroy your life. Whatever problems you may

have with your son are in no way a karmic judgment from some vicious and intolerant Deity/Universe. It is even possible he has narcissistic qualities also. Certainly, his behaviour toward you is exceedingly cruel and mindblowingly self absorbed. Please give yourself

permission to be human, worthy, vulnerable. It is a huge credit to your humanity that you remain a kind person with the ability to feel love and compassion for others. Their inability/unwillingness to treat you with the respect and dignity you deserve is on them, not on you. I shall hold you in my heart, I wish you the very best. You ARE deserving of no less, my friend. 🥰
Click to expand...
Thank you for not being judgmental and for giving me some peace of mind. I need it...don't we all?!

I had to re-read your comments several times, like a mantra, to absorb what your were saying. It's hard to NOT be hard on yourself when so many others have been. Thank you for some light into my sometimes dark thoughts :) Bless you. Namaste.
 

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