I go to church with my wife

Well Mr. Ed, maybe you should ask God for some specific sign regarding Jesus, the Christ, the Savior of all sinners that fully trust in Him for forgiveness of sins by His sacrifice on the cross. I am quite convinced, based on your persistence in this very matter, that you are searching for this.
 

I think sin was invented so people would depend on god, Jesus, bible, and religion as a business. I don’t believe in sin, and therefore I have no use to be forgiven. I cannot say god loves me except that I am here. Salvation is said to provide forgiveness from something that cannot be proven of it’s existence. There is no trace of sin except from what we choose to believe.
Am I any less credible denying sin exists than someone who claims to have sin? Why do people believe things based on feeling than hard accurate evidence? These stories have been around since the bible’s writing, I challenge that the Bible has long lost its meaning and is obsolete in its message.
 
Mr. Ed said:
I have trouble with Jesus because of the whole father-son thing. My dad neglected his role as a parent and father. His excuse was my mother made him feel like a little boy by asking him to do things. He was a little rebel boy whose only concern was his public image. Christmas and Easter are hard for me because of the. father I never had.
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This is one of the problems of trying to relate to a deity that could not be represented in icons or statues. I'm talking about the Hebrew god that had no name.

Throughout the Old and New Testaments there are multiple images used refer to the god of creation - a burning bush, a pillar of flame, a wood carver, mother hen, a loving father, a king and so on.

For those of us who experienced loving parents we have little problem relating to a heavenly father, even if our knowledge of science rules out the idea of a three tiered universe.

Faith and belief are subtly different concepts. Faith is worth holding tightly throughout periods of disbelief. Beliefs change and fall away as we mature through different stages of faith.
 

Perhaps if I had a loving, nurturing image of parents and parental my views about god and Jesus would be different, however, these types of imagery do not exist in my database, therefore I must work with what I have got.
It is complicated perceiving my father-figure as the preacher who represents god, the great father-figure and Jesus, subservient father-figure and doorway to godliness. None of which were effective to me, or perhaps having no significant change when I thought I was Christian, I was just acting foolish praying here and there full of thankfulness.

What is done is done. I see too many flaws in Christiainty to go back to the innocence I once knew. This is why a Unitarian church appeals to me, not to be locked in a closed faith form of worship, instead to be open-minded and respectful to other beliefs and practices. I do not believe Christianity is the only pathway to happiness. Isn’t that what everyone wants to achieve?
 
Mr. Ed said:
...I do not believe Christianity is the only pathway to happiness. Isn’t that what everyone wants to achieve?
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No. Religion for most Christians has never been about "happiness" during their life although some denominations sell that angle. You regularly open new threads on religious issues and don't seem to have much interest listening to what others post but rather use your threads as a soapbox to complain about your personal emotionally painful history then add IMO flawed, simplistic, naive ideas about religion not worth responding to.

A history you apparently don't choose to stop thinking about probably because you personally live with a wife and acquaintances who believe otherwise instead of moving on as an individual ignoring them. They of course are not going to change their answers so you come here instead expecting someone here will explain or discuss issues with THEIR perspective that is misplaced. The rest of us on this web board are never going to solve that regardless of what and how often you keep asking.
 
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Think of yourself as the Father, Ed. You ARE a Father. A Good One. A Loving One. You are the Father now. Your Father is DEAD, but you are alive and you have daughters who love you. You are the Father. You.
 
David777 said:
No. Religion for most Christians has never been about "happiness" during their life although some denominations sell that angle. You regularly open new threads on religious issues and don't seem to have much interest listening to what others post but rather use your threads as a soapbox to complain about your personal emotionally painful history then add IMO flawed, simplistic, naive ideas about religion not worth responding to.

A history you apparently don't choose to stop thinking about probably because you personally live with a wife and acquaintances who believe otherwise instead of moving on as an individual ignoring them. They of course are not going to change their answers so you come here instead expecting someone here will explain or discuss issues with THEIR perspective that is misplaced. The rest of us on this web board are never going to solve that regardless of what and how often you keep asking.
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Are you asking me to leave?
 
Thank you everyone for your enriching words of wisdom and thoughtful comments. I am lost from my past with no clear understanding of god or spiritual awareness. I have searched along my life path as live today, not knowing who or what guides me. I recall an innocents that must have been god, however, tarnished did he become when I claimed to know it all. I yearn that my mind return to mine own ignorance when the spirits were my friends.
 
Mr. Ed said:
It seems I was saved at age 6yrs, didn’t notice any difference. Teenage years, into drugs-searching for life meaning. Got crazy, literally-psychotic-event-hospitalization-extreme-anger-parents, Lived in-the-moment for a moment. Year 2008, herbs+medication overdose. March near Easter. Became psychotic-went to bathroom and disrobed. Enter front of bathtub shower and exited rear of tub shower. Symbolized resurection of Christ at Easter. A lifetime of symptomatic mental illness I am able to understand how to reclaim my life. Became gainfully employed and graduated from college 2017 with honors. It was a miracle I became well enough to achieve the things I have considering my history with mental illness.

Hopefully I’ll not experience psychosis again. I am in a spiritual growth period that may or may not provide me with greater understanding of self in relationship to life as I know it. Whatever life is I am honored to be it’s student.
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I'm with you on that brother. Life is absolutely amazing.
 
Mr. Ed said:
Perhaps if I had a loving, nurturing image of parents and parental my views about god and Jesus would be different, however, these types of imagery do not exist in my database, therefore I must work with what I have got.
It is complicated perceiving my father-figure as the preacher who represents god, the great father-figure and Jesus, subservient father-figure and doorway to godliness. None of which were effective to me, or perhaps having no significant change when I thought I was Christian, I was just acting foolish praying here and there full of thankfulness.

What is done is done. I see too many flaws in Christiainty to go back to the innocence I once knew. This is why a Unitarian church appeals to me, not to be locked in a closed faith form of worship, instead to be open-minded and respectful to other beliefs and practices. I do not believe Christianity is the only pathway to happiness. Isn’t that what everyone wants to achieve?
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Couldn't agree more... seeker of truth follow no path
all paths lead where
truth is here
 
Mr. Ed said:
What is done is done. I see too many flaws in Christianty to go back to the innocence I once knew. This is why a Unitarian church appeals to me, not to be locked in a closed faith form of worship, instead to be open-minded and respectful to other beliefs and practices. I do not believe Christianity is the only pathway to happiness. Isn’t that what everyone wants to achieve?
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You are not wrong, Mr Ed. Happiness, fulfilment, serenity and peace are all goals that the heart yearns for. They are not restricted to any one religious or philosophical tradition.
 
@Mr. Ed

I've been playing with the idea of posting here for days and at this late hour, finding myself fueled with a comfortable buzz, have decided to go ahead and take a chance at responding. It's not you that I worry about offending, as I think we have a common, unspoken understanding of the issue, but the rest of the forum members who have posted in this thread from one side of the issue in particular.

I understand that you love your wife and you're willing to set aside your beliefs and understanding to comfort her. I watched my father do it for nearly my entire life and I both understand and admire it. I also understand the conflict, the cognitive dissonance which results when you try to force yourself to reason the unreasonable. I understand your plight.

When others misunderstand your conflict and say that you are really searching for a god that you can't possibly comprehend, the lack of compassion and understanding makes me sad. If you would like to talk please let me know.

Brian.
 
Hey all...this topic is clearly not been talked about for a year, but I have some questions.
I was raised christian in my early years, from birth to my first communion. I have to be honest, I never cared much as it was just the community thing to do. Never been into religion. Even in University I did take theology as part of the philo/psych dept. But...that was a lifetime ago.
So...
I came across a good forum the other day talking about religion. There was an interesting discussion that even the devout christians/catholics could not answer.
Someone-not against religion-posed 5 questions that could not be answered.
1-If God created Adam and Eve, how did the human race get started. Cause if you just have 2 people, the only way to populate would be their own kids mating eventually. That doesn't go well, so how?
2-Why is there no evidence of Moses, Jesus, God, Adam, Eve, Ark, tablets, etc?
3-The creation of the bible. It was overseen by men to create was was put into the bible. But what of the missing books?
4-It is well know the church (Vatican) does not pay taxes and has billions of dollars. Why is it not used to help those less fortunate? Would not the entire purpose of the church is to preach the word of God, help those find salvation, and use some of those billions to help those less fortunate?
5-Why is blind faith accepted in religion as it is. But in any other thing, it is not.

Now I am not asking this question looking to enrage anyone. So if you can't be nice, please move on. I am not looking for a battle, just maybe a devout person's opinion.
 
Tazx said:
Hey all...this topic is clearly not been talked about for a year, but I have some questions.
I was raised christian in my early years, from birth to my first communion. I have to be honest, I never cared much as it was just the community thing to do. Never been into religion. Even in University I did take theology as part of the philo/psych dept. But...that was a lifetime ago.
So...
I came across a good forum the other day talking about religion. There was an interesting discussion that even the devout christians/catholics could not answer.
Someone-not against religion-posed 5 questions that could not be answered.
1-If God created Adam and Eve, how did the human race get started. Cause if you just have 2 people, the only way to populate would be their own kids mating eventually. That doesn't go well, so how?
2-Why is there no evidence of Moses, Jesus, God, Adam, Eve, Ark, tablets, etc?
3-The creation of the bible. It was overseen by men to create was was put into the bible. But what of the missing books?
4-It is well know the church (Vatican) does not pay taxes and has billions of dollars. Why is it not used to help those less fortunate? Would not the entire purpose of the church is to preach the word of God, help those find salvation, and use some of those billions to help those less fortunate?
5-Why is blind faith accepted in religion as it is. But in any other thing, it is not.

Now I am not asking this question looking to enrage anyone. So if you can't be nice, please move on. I am not looking for a battle, just maybe a devout person's opinion.
Click to expand...
My early life mirrors yours. On item #4, I once read a book or maybe a novella about some natural event that caused extreme poverty leading to widespread deaths in China. The pope then did sell off all assets of the Catholic Church to help save the Chinese people. But of course that was fiction, highly doubtful it would ever happen in real life.
 
Mr. Ed said:
I enjoy seeing certain people and yes I enjoy time with my wife.

Why do I attend church? Primarily to discredit church rhetoric, bible and preaching in comparison with my world view. I’ve been in church, listened to sermons, and prayed for results until realizing there is nothing there for me.
Not until I denounced those things I grew up with did I find peace within myself. I believe religion is everything you desire it to be because religion is a product of your own desire. God is real, if that is what you want believe, no can control your mind or what you believe. Practice skepticism, examine your motives, why you do what you do.
Christianity is fed by church worship, prayer, bible literature. If you practice these things you are reinforcing the ideas and concepts of Christianity, you are what you eat,
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Give pastorsstudy.org a listen ... just out of curiosity. :)
 
To Mr. Ed: You sound like you are searching for a meaningful faith. But you are not getting much inspiration from the church you attend with your wife. Is she very attached to that particular church? If she is open to it, maybe try some different churches as an experiment? You might find one that is more on your wave length, maybe she would like it better too.

To Tazx: Good points. The ones you raised include some of my own atheist thinking. A rational person is not expected to just blindly accept any account of anything just because someone says it is true, without any proof whatsoever. Or because it was written down in a book in much more ignorant times. All except one subject: religion. To me, it's very simple and rational: if you can't prove it, and are just insisting that it's true, and telling people that they have to accept it as truth because of blind faith, why on earth should they believe it's the truth? Because someone else told them to? Or they were scared into believing it in their childhood?

However, as someone here said, religion is not rational. The beauty of the service, the music and art, the fellowship, sometimes (not always) the wisdom of the pastor, are powerful emotional magnets. It's not always easy to turn your back on all that.

Many people know that the whole thing is irrational nonsense, but they go along with it because the above benefits come along with it. (There are some atheist/agnostic religious groups also, but in my experience, most of them are dry and pedantic. They are more like college lectures than religious observances.)

A Unitarian fellowship we used to belong to (unfortunately we moved to another part of the country) had a part of their service called "The search for meaning." I think that is a good phrase for an intelligent approach to religion. Not blind faith; everyone has to find what is true for themself.
 
Tazx said:
Hey all...this topic is clearly not been talked about for a year, but I have some questions.
I was raised christian in my early years, from birth to my first communion. I have to be honest, I never cared much as it was just the community thing to do. Never been into religion. Even in University I did take theology as part of the philo/psych dept. But...that was a lifetime ago.
So...
I came across a good forum the other day talking about religion. There was an interesting discussion that even the devout christians/catholics could not answer.
Someone-not against religion-posed 5 questions that could not be answered.
1-If God created Adam and Eve, how did the human race get started. Cause if you just have 2 people, the only way to populate would be their own kids mating eventually. That doesn't go well, so how?
2-Why is there no evidence of Moses, Jesus, God, Adam, Eve, Ark, tablets, etc?
3-The creation of the bible. It was overseen by men to create was was put into the bible. But what of the missing books?
4-It is well know the church (Vatican) does not pay taxes and has billions of dollars. Why is it not used to help those less fortunate? Would not the entire purpose of the church is to preach the word of God, help those find salvation, and use some of those billions to help those less fortunate?
5-Why is blind faith accepted in religion as it is. But in any other thing, it is not.

Now I am not asking this question looking to enrage anyone. So if you can't be nice, please move on. I am not looking for a battle, just maybe a devout person's opinion.
Click to expand...
Hi Tazx,

It's nice to see you're posting about a variety of subjects these days. I don't know why the forum you were listening to couldn't find answers to the 5 questions on your list. Those are great questions. It seems strange they didn't at least offer opinions.

I Googled each question and found a variety of perspectives on each question from Christians and non-Christians alike. I'm sure you can do the same, with no need for me to take up space in the forum, then seeing a variety of posters reply, disputing the links, etc.

So......I won't venture to offer my personal opinion on your specific questions, since, as you pointed out, you're not looking for a battle, and neither am I. I don't mind telling you that when I have specific Bible questions, I sometimes use this link.

I'm not a Catholic, so I can't answer as to how their funds are used (or not used) to help the less fortunate. I found this statement on Google A-I: "The Vatican actively supports charitable causes and helps the poor through various initiatives. [And] The Catholic Church, with the Vatican as its headquarters, is the largest non-governmental provider of education and medical services globally."

My church has several outreach programs for the indigent, including a food pantry, and a free medical and dental clinic which is open Saturdays for those who have no insurance, and they receive free care whether or not they go to any church.
 
MACKTEXAS said:
Hi Tazx,

It's nice to see you're posting about a variety of subjects these days. I don't know why the forum you were listening to couldn't find answers to the 5 questions on your list. Those are great questions. It seems strange they didn't at least offer opinions.

I Googled each question and found a variety of perspectives on each question from Christians and non-Christians alike. I'm sure you can do the same, with no need for me to take up space in the forum, then seeing a variety of posters reply, disputing the links, etc.

So......I won't venture to offer my personal opinion on your specific questions, since, as you pointed out, you're not looking for a battle, and neither am I. I don't mind telling you that when I have specific Bible questions, I sometimes use this link.

I'm not a Catholic, so I can't answer as to how their funds are used (or not used) to help the less fortunate. I found this statement on Google A-I: "The Vatican actively supports charitable causes and helps the poor through various initiatives. [And] The Catholic Church, with the Vatican as its headquarters, is the largest non-governmental provider of education and medical services globally."

My church has several outreach programs for the indigent, including a food pantry, and a free medical and dental clinic which is open Saturdays for those who have no insurance, and they receive free care whether or not they go to any church.
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Hey,
Yes they offered a variety of opinions, but I was looking for a different point of view.

I do know that the church does donate, provide services, money etc, but it was the extreme amounts that they bring in versus donate or give out.

Thanks for the info!
 
Religion does not want people to know they can fix themselves by learning how to love themselves, completely and wholly. Honesty is necessary for complete understanding of self. Without self knowledge you will never fully be in control of your life.

Religion is a distraction from the truth that you and you alone are the “god” of your life. unfortunately god is a concept therefore only in one‘s mind of understanding. The elusiveness of god is captured within the concept of your mind, god only exists because you believe it is so. No heaven, no hell, no sin, but redemption is real if you are willing to forgive yourself. I am not bothered by my past, my past is clean and now I live without regrets.
 
Mr. Ed, perhaps thinking yourself your own ‘god’ is counterproductive to ensuring peace amongst all peoples. For peoples’ personalities and beliefs vary. If all think of themselves as their own ‘god’, and disagree over who’s ‘god’ is correct and who’s is wrong in opinions, views and beliefs, would not their own self ‘god’, try to correct the other’s? And human nature being as it is, might not this cause detrimental conflict?
 
Mr. Ed said:
As I explained church and god is what and where one best appreciate them. Tis true I have negative feelings about tradional forms of worship and needs. In my opinion any and all forms of spiritual commitment excluding hatred and acts of evil are beneficial to the provider and to the receiver of spiritual good fortune.
If religion were taught on a broad range of spiritual awareness, and thereby cultivated to one’s on calling according to individual talents, church would be different than the present model of worship services.
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yep can see where ya comin from with that account Mr Ed - sometimes a church can have a nullifying effect ; become boring ; monotonous and dreary ; they can lose their own "inner spirit" and become parrots? yes churches can funnel us all into one style or mode of communions with God and it does need a godly and lively preacher to give the service that special sparkle ; keep it alive ; change the tunes sometimes?
 
Tazx said:
Hey all...this topic is clearly not been talked about for a year, but I have some questions.
I was raised christian in my early years, from birth to my first communion. I have to be honest, I never cared much as it was just the community thing to do. Never been into religion. Even in University I did take theology as part of the philo/psych dept. But...that was a lifetime ago.
So...
I came across a good forum the other day talking about religion. There was an interesting discussion that even the devout christians/catholics could not answer.
Someone-not against religion-posed 5 questions that could not be answered.
1-If God created Adam and Eve, how did the human race get started. Cause if you just have 2 people, the only way to populate would be their own kids mating eventually. That doesn't go well, so how?
2-Why is there no evidence of Moses, Jesus, God, Adam, Eve, Ark, tablets, etc?
3-The creation of the bible. It was overseen by men to create was was put into the bible. But what of the missing books?
4-It is well know the church (Vatican) does not pay taxes and has billions of dollars. Why is it not used to help those less fortunate? Would not the entire purpose of the church is to preach the word of God, help those find salvation, and use some of those billions to help those less fortunate?
5-Why is blind faith accepted in religion as it is. But in any other thing, it is not.

Now I am not asking this question looking to enrage anyone. So if you can't be nice, please move on. I am not looking for a battle, just maybe a devout person's opinion.
Click to expand...
About question no. 1, this also occurred to me way back in my youth: who were the women that the sons of Adam and Eve married? Maybe their own sisters? Nah, it couldn't be that! So, if Adam & Eve really were the first people, um...

Sounds like pretty sloppy writing to me.
 
Sunny said:
About question no. 1, this also occurred to me way back in my youth: who were the women that the sons of Adam and Eve married? Maybe their own sisters? Nah, it couldn't be that! So, if Adam & Eve really were the first people, um...

Sounds like pretty sloppy writing to me.
Click to expand...
that's an interesting point you raise - leave it with me just now - gettin close to midnight here and my eyes are getting drowsy but will get back on it soon
 

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