Kate Smith banned by Yankees
- Thread starter Sunny
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Aneeda, why is referring to the Holocaust any more "political" than anything else referred to in this thread? If you don't want to "address anything regarding the Holocaust," that's your privilege, of course. But I really don't think the rules of this forum prevent us from mentioning that something that occurred in 1945 may have been influenced by the Holocaust. What is "political" about that?
Kate Smith apparently had an extreme change of heart. Or maybe she didn't realize the offensiveness of those two songs back in the early 30's? My question is, what caused such a sudden change of attitude?
Aunt Bea
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IMO Kate Smith was not a racist and did not have a change of heart she simply recorded a popular song of the day. The song That's Why The Darkies Were Born was also recorded by Paul Robeson in 1931 and no mention has been made of his rendition of the song being racist.
My question is how do we all let go of the past and find our way forward.
IMO a very large step forward would be to stop slicing and dicing every statistic along racial lines and simply focus on how we deal with the issues that impact all of us.
Another good idea from Morgan Freeman in a 2005 interview with Mike Wallace:
WALLACE: How are we going to get rid of racism until …?
FREEMAN: Stop talking about it. I’m going to stop calling you a white man. And I’m going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman. You’re not going to say, “I know this white guy named Mike Wallace.” Hear what I’m saying?
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
Sunny,
If the Holocaust is not a political issue, and it is so important to you and others, why don’t you start a thread on it? What’s stopping you from doing so? I have certainly mentioned this before and I encourage you to start such a thread. I would put such a thread under Hot Topics, as I think it will be. Let’s see if it becomes a political issue, then you will have your answer.
I am wrong quite a bit. I don’t mind being wrong. I admit when I’m wrong. So, feel free to prove my opinion, on this issue or any other issue, wrong. I won’t post on the thread or comment about it. I’ll just read it. But not provide any opinion. I am very new to the forum. I interpret the rules in the way I interpret the issue. Then I apply it to myself and give an opinion.
In reality, no one died and made me the boss. I am sure about this cause I have not been paid. Do what you want. It might be quite a challenge linking the Holocaust to racism in the southern states of America during the 1930-1940’s. I’d like to see it done. After all, racism and slavery didn’t start in America. How Kate Smith figures into the whole thing is beyond me.
In any event, I am done with this issue.
As for Kate Smith, I totally agree with Aunt Bee. Kate Smith wasn’t a racist.
If the Holocaust is not a political issue, and it is so important to you and others, why don’t you start a thread on it? What’s stopping you from doing so? I have certainly mentioned this before and I encourage you to start such a thread. I would put such a thread under Hot Topics, as I think it will be. Let’s see if it becomes a political issue, then you will have your answer.
I am wrong quite a bit. I don’t mind being wrong. I admit when I’m wrong. So, feel free to prove my opinion, on this issue or any other issue, wrong. I won’t post on the thread or comment about it. I’ll just read it. But not provide any opinion. I am very new to the forum. I interpret the rules in the way I interpret the issue. Then I apply it to myself and give an opinion.
In reality, no one died and made me the boss. I am sure about this cause I have not been paid. Do what you want. It might be quite a challenge linking the Holocaust to racism in the southern states of America during the 1930-1940’s. I’d like to see it done. After all, racism and slavery didn’t start in America. How Kate Smith figures into the whole thing is beyond me.
In any event, I am done with this issue.
As for Kate Smith, I totally agree with Aunt Bee. Kate Smith wasn’t a racist.
fmdog44
Well-known Member
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Cultural and political change in countries typically come from the populations thru protests, not from governments. What percent of Americans were opposed/in favor of unions, taxes, prohibition, women's right to vote, the voting age, the black vote, civil rights, the military draft and other issues? Once the issues became laws there is little anyone can do except for prohibition of course. The civil rights laws took the anti-minority rights people off the streets. The KKK was once numbered in the hundred of thousands but now they are shunned and ridiculed because the laws are against them. So not all people agree with the civil rights issues past and current but few are vocal about it so they just remain silent and go along with the crowd. Despite all our laws on the books does anyone actually believe black Americans feel right at home in America? Not hardly.
Aneeda, I did not ask who died and made you the boss. That was someone else. Please get your facts straight.
As for the Holocaust, I should think it is "important" to every sane person on this planet. And I do not need your permission to start a discussion about it if I so desired. But my question was not about the Holocaust. I was asking whether the enormity of WW2 (which included the Holocaust, of course) could have been partially responsible for a sea change in people's attitudes, and in what might be considered "humor." You seem to think that the Holocaust is a political topic. I don't think the deaths of over 12 million people could be considered "political" at all. But would you be less offended by the topic if I said, "Maybe her change of attitude was at least partially influenced by WW2?"
Lots of things changed during that decade or two. We still had a long way to go until the Civil Rights movement, but after the war, things were beginning to loosen up, at least from where they were. It was, you might say, the beginning of modern thinking about a lot of things. And maybe our realization about where hatred can get us, was at least part of the picture.
As for the Holocaust, I should think it is "important" to every sane person on this planet. And I do not need your permission to start a discussion about it if I so desired. But my question was not about the Holocaust. I was asking whether the enormity of WW2 (which included the Holocaust, of course) could have been partially responsible for a sea change in people's attitudes, and in what might be considered "humor." You seem to think that the Holocaust is a political topic. I don't think the deaths of over 12 million people could be considered "political" at all. But would you be less offended by the topic if I said, "Maybe her change of attitude was at least partially influenced by WW2?"
Lots of things changed during that decade or two. We still had a long way to go until the Civil Rights movement, but after the war, things were beginning to loosen up, at least from where they were. It was, you might say, the beginning of modern thinking about a lot of things. And maybe our realization about where hatred can get us, was at least part of the picture.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
Ugh, sigh, why me?
Sunny,
My facts are somewhat straight. I know you didn’t make the comment about me being the boss. I was making the comment about it, however, to you.
I wasn’t giving you permission to start a discussion. How you got that out of what I said is a mystery. I was and still am asking why you are not starting a discussion? This discussion, I think, is about, something else. But discussions ebb and flow so maybe not.
Apparently, you are related to my husband, as you have something in common-the inability to answer a question in a straightforward manner. I don’t know you, I’ve never met you, and, yet, you seem so familiar, lol. Open a discussion, don’t open a discussion-Princess Pocahontas aka Aneeda, gives you permission to do either.
As to whether WWII could have have changed people’s opinion towards or concerning racism, I already gave my answer, you must be asking someone else’s opinion. I am not offended by the topic. If I were offended by the topic, I would not keep asking you to open a thread on it. Lord love a duck, I can’t get the bold button to turn off. Lol.
Sunny,
My facts are somewhat straight. I know you didn’t make the comment about me being the boss. I was making the comment about it, however, to you.
I wasn’t giving you permission to start a discussion. How you got that out of what I said is a mystery. I was and still am asking why you are not starting a discussion? This discussion, I think, is about, something else. But discussions ebb and flow so maybe not.
Apparently, you are related to my husband, as you have something in common-the inability to answer a question in a straightforward manner. I don’t know you, I’ve never met you, and, yet, you seem so familiar, lol. Open a discussion, don’t open a discussion-Princess Pocahontas aka Aneeda, gives you permission to do either.
As to whether WWII could have have changed people’s opinion towards or concerning racism, I already gave my answer, you must be asking someone else’s opinion. I am not offended by the topic. If I were offended by the topic, I would not keep asking you to open a thread on it. Lord love a duck, I can’t get the bold button to turn off. Lol.
AZ Jim
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
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- SURPRISE, ARIZONA
The Holocaust happened. It was maybe the best example of man's ability to be supportive of extreme cruelty to others for no good reason. All those people, man, woman and child died because of their heritage. It was the best example of the acts of humans lured by a insane, fanatic leader. God bless those lost and God damn those who perpetrated those ungodly acts.
RadishRose
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- Connecticut, USA
I think the Holocaust prodded people to be more aware of social injustice of many types in their own lands.
In any case, I'm with Aunt Bea on Kate Smith.
In any case, I'm with Aunt Bea on Kate Smith.
Sassycakes
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I just read the Lyrics to the song and I honestly don't believe it was meant to insult Black People. Especially when I read the last paragraph.
Kate Smith
Miscellaneous
That's Why Darkies Were Born
That's Why Darkies Were Born
Kate Smith
Henderson & Brown
Someone had to pick the cotton,
Someone had to pick the corn,
Someone had to slave and be able to sing,
That's why darkies were born;
Someone had to laugh at trouble,
Though he was tired and worn,
Had to be contented with any old thing,
That's why darkies were born;
Sing, sing, sing when you're weary and
Sing when you're blue,
Sing, sing, that's what you taught
All the white folks to do;
That's Why Darkies Were Born
That's Why Darkies Were Born
Kate Smith
Henderson & Brown
Someone had to pick the cotton,
Someone had to pick the corn,
Someone had to slave and be able to sing,
That's why darkies were born;
Someone had to laugh at trouble,
Though he was tired and worn,
Had to be contented with any old thing,
That's why darkies were born;
Sing, sing, sing when you're weary and
Sing when you're blue,
Sing, sing, that's what you taught
All the white folks to do;
Someone had to fight the Devil,
Shout about Gabriel's Horn,
Someone had to stoke the train
That would bring God's children to green pastures,
That's why darkies were born.
Shout about Gabriel's Horn,
Someone had to stoke the train
That would bring God's children to green pastures,
That's why darkies were born.
rgp
Well-known Member
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- Milford,OH
And there we have it.....it's all in the perception , I won't comment on the KS song, & / or the words of the song, because my opinion doesn't matter anyway.
I just think arguing over it / making it an issue after all this time, is nutz........jmo.
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applecruncher
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In some ways this thread has been a learning experience, and in some ways just an affirmation reminding me of what I already knew....not that I needed a reminder. It's also disappointing that the more disgusting posts haven't been removed. To be honest, I find it quite sad.
@ Sassycakes - your post #89... Seriously? Wow. Just...wow.
@ Sassycakes - your post #89... Seriously? Wow. Just...wow.
Sassycakes
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- Pennsylvania
I would most certainly respect a black persons view Pepper. There view on this subject would be much better than mine or anyone else that didn't experience what horrors the black people have endured and still endure. When I read the last section of the song I thought it meant the black people were here to save the world by fighting the Devil to bring others to a better view of how good black people are, not what they were being labeled.
Someone had to fight the Devil,
Shout about Gabriel's Horn,
Someone had to stoke the train
That would bring God's children to green pastures,
That's why darkies were born.
Shout about Gabriel's Horn,
Someone had to stoke the train
That would bring God's children to green pastures,
That's why darkies were born.
RadishRose
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- Location
- Connecticut, USA
I understand the point Sassy was trying to make. The song is so awful, but she picked up on the last lines and found a different meaning in them.
In 1931, Paul Robeson sang this song as well. Why not criticize him too? He was an accomplished entertainer, world traveled and a civil rights activist.
From YouTube-
Please continue without further comment from me.
In 1931, Paul Robeson sang this song as well. Why not criticize him too? He was an accomplished entertainer, world traveled and a civil rights activist.
From YouTube-
Please continue without further comment from me.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
"In 1931, Paul Robeson sang this song as well. Why not criticize him too? "
Simple.....Kate Smith was white.....He is black. It' fine when they do it, it's somehow bad when we do it.
But hey.....they're all about equality......
OMG, Pepper, were you telling us that you had gone into labor?! :laugh:
More seriously, wouldn't it be interesting if this was really a satirical song, meant as a sarcastic take on racism? Sort of along the lines of "You've Got To Be Taught" from South Pacific?
You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
Or people whose skin is a different shade,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught,
Before it’s too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
Think outside the box.
You could actually read the song as a condemnation of the white race. Whites, of past times and pretty much present times, are too lazy to get out there and pick their own cotton so someone else had to do it. Many whites think such manual labour is beneath them, thus our arrogance as a race continues.
Some crops can not be machine picked. Ever see a group of white people out picking a large field of tomatoes, grapes, strawberries? Yup, you know who picks those crops now. However, please tell me where you think white people do
pick a field, if this happens in the good old USofA I’d like to see it. Surprise me.
There are many definitions for the word slave. As in slaving away at a job. The song writer was way ahead of his time. The concept that “darkies” were put here to teach whites is an amazing and true to point reality. Teach us about hard work, surviving adversity, and finding joy in being alive under horrendous conditions. Let’s give them credit due.
And, of course, to literally sing the praises of the lord while working yourself to death for a scrap of bread and a blanket. What was up with that? Blind faith? Wishful thinking? I just don’t know. But that doesn’t happen now, does it? Today’s pickers are not slaves, are they? All those uneducated, non-English speaking immigrants yearning for the freedom to pick our crops and clean our toilets.
What’s up with that? Yup, I’m going to settle down and watch game of thrones as well. Love that show. I also watch call the midwife. And as history repeats itself, I am going to worry less about Kate and more about the iron throne.
You could actually read the song as a condemnation of the white race. Whites, of past times and pretty much present times, are too lazy to get out there and pick their own cotton so someone else had to do it. Many whites think such manual labour is beneath them, thus our arrogance as a race continues.
Some crops can not be machine picked. Ever see a group of white people out picking a large field of tomatoes, grapes, strawberries? Yup, you know who picks those crops now. However, please tell me where you think white people do
pick a field, if this happens in the good old USofA I’d like to see it. Surprise me.
There are many definitions for the word slave. As in slaving away at a job. The song writer was way ahead of his time. The concept that “darkies” were put here to teach whites is an amazing and true to point reality. Teach us about hard work, surviving adversity, and finding joy in being alive under horrendous conditions. Let’s give them credit due.
And, of course, to literally sing the praises of the lord while working yourself to death for a scrap of bread and a blanket. What was up with that? Blind faith? Wishful thinking? I just don’t know. But that doesn’t happen now, does it? Today’s pickers are not slaves, are they? All those uneducated, non-English speaking immigrants yearning for the freedom to pick our crops and clean our toilets.
What’s up with that? Yup, I’m going to settle down and watch game of thrones as well. Love that show. I also watch call the midwife. And as history repeats itself, I am going to worry less about Kate and more about the iron throne.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
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- Los Angeles Suburbs
I agree fully with every one of your points, Trade.
Have any of you listened to what your grandchildren are listening to today? Mostly in the lyrics of the Rap Music today and how it degrades most women and also black people and the life style they are living as well and most of these artists that it is coming from are black themselves. This sort of thing has been going on in music for decades and decades and until someone or an organization wants to make someone a whipping boy/girl over it no one says a word about it. Then once it comes to light then the whole race war starts up. News flash the race war is already there with or without these songs and people singing them. Sadly it will always be there because people cannot see beyond the color of ones skin and look inside one another and see that we all bleed the same color.
I'm not as pessimistic as you. What do you mean when you say race war?
RadishRose
SF VIP
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- Connecticut, USA
BeccaBoo has a point-
You think Kate Smith and Paul Robeson (a black man) sang disgusting songs?
Try some of these-
Warning,,, offensive and obscene content
https://hiphopwired.com/249697/das-racist-the-15-most-racist-songs-of-all-time/10/
https://www.complex.com/music/2014/...and-nubian-punks-jump-up-to-get-the-beat-down
There's plenty more.
You think Kate Smith and Paul Robeson (a black man) sang disgusting songs?
Try some of these-
Warning,,, offensive and obscene content
https://hiphopwired.com/249697/das-racist-the-15-most-racist-songs-of-all-time/10/
https://www.complex.com/music/2014/...and-nubian-punks-jump-up-to-get-the-beat-down
There's plenty more.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Isn't that the point that many are trying to make? Racism is alive and well in this country - and on this planet - and should be deemed unacceptable whenever and wherever it exists. Saying some songs, words, or actions are more racist than others doesn't justify the existence of the less racist sentiments. They're all offensive, should be branded as such, and shunned by the general public.
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