Race/Racism discussion

[fuzzybuddy]

I'm white. I also admit to have some racist feelings. Not that I'm wearing a white sheet, either. One problem I do have with Blacks is Black Culture. I don't live in the "hood". So, how am I supposed understand Black Culture? And if Blacks don't live in my neighborhood, how are they supposed to understand my White Culture? How do we get to our culture?

 

[applecruncher]

Gonna veer on to something a little different.

Years ago I got miffed when an Asian co-worker made a remark to the effect that all blacks go/are active in church. He didn't say anything offensive. It was just the generalization that bugged me. He said that the blacks he knew went to church regularly. Well, I don't and neither do most of the blacks I know. Later I was taken aside by a couple of black people....they told me to cut the guy some slack. He wasn't being racist, and there's nothing wrong with what he said and certainly nothing wrong with going to church. They were RIGHT, and I apologized to the guy.

There's a show on ABC called "The Middle". The dad Mike supervises several men at a quarry. One is black, and during the course of a casual conversation the black guy mentions that he's invited Mike to visit his church, and he hadn't come. So, the Heck family attends a service, and I really liked the episode. In fact, when I was a child I spent a lot of time with an aunt who was very involved in church - one similar to the one in this episode.

Enjoy.

 

[ray188]

I'm white. I also admit to have some racist feelings. Not that I'm wearing a white sheet, either. One problem I do have with Blacks is Black Culture. I don't live in the "hood". So, how am I supposed understand Black Culture? And if Blacks don't live in my neighborhood, how are they supposed to understand my White Culture? How do we get to our culture?

Alternate view - why do you have to know black culture. Not knowing it does not make you a bad person. On the other hand, if you truly have an inquiring mind and want to open it up to something new - go for it. Either way, it's not a "racial" thing - it is a "human" thing.

BTW - recognizing that there are different cultures and not being part of each and every culture is not "racist feelings".

 

[fuzzybuddy]

All ethnic groups lose some of their ethnic culture when they assimilate into the broader culture. The "hood" is eventually going to become a neighborhood. I'm not sure how much of Black Culture are Blacks willing to lose. That is a tough thing to do.

 

[JaniceM]

I'm white. I also admit to have some racist feelings. Not that I'm wearing a white sheet, either. One problem I do have with Blacks is Black Culture. I don't live in the "hood". So, how am I supposed understand Black Culture? And if Blacks don't live in my neighborhood, how are they supposed to understand my White Culture? How do we get to our culture?

There have been a few subjects I've planned to post in this thread, not had time, still extremely busy, so I apologize if this is unclear, blunt, etc., but one point I'd planned to make is addressed in this c/p from a Psychology Today article:

Culture. (Noun). The sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.

​

Though the definition doesn't elaborate, "the sum total of ways" is usually presumed to include language, food, dress, music, and holiday celebrations, as well as less clearly defined concepts such as values, shared points of reference, and norms regarding how we interact and relate to each other.
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With all that in mind, perhaps someone who believes 'Black culture,' 'White culture,' 'Asian culture,' etc. even exists may want to consider it from some examples:

1. Thinking of two individuals I know- one person is a multi-generation descendant of slaves (Africa), one is a second-generation American of Caribbean Island heritage. They grew up in two different parts of the U.S., and are members of two different generations. What 'Black culture' do they have in common?

2. Thinking of two other individuals I knew long ago, both "Asian"- one person escaped Vietnam during the Communist takeover, when I met her she was 30 yrs old and had been in the U.S. only a few years; the other was born in the U.S. to a Chinese-American doctor. They too were members of two different generations, and lived on opposite coasts. What is their 'Asian culture'?

3. The concept of 'White culture' is even more mystifying- considering how many countries around the globe are predominately white, what do they have in common with each other? I'd venture to say "not much." As random examples, a person whose parents or grandparents came from Russia has little 'culture' in common with a person whose parents or grandparents came from England.

I don't mean to diss anyone or anyone's viewpoints, but in my opinion attaching the concept of 'culture' to a race or other inborn factor (ethnicity, etc.) is ridiculous. I believe if 'culture' exists at all, it's based on where a person is from, where he/she grew up, the ways the person absorbed in his/her early environments, etc.- and their race has virtually nothing to do with it.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

So explain racism?

 

[JaniceM]

So explain racism?

I believe racism (and other forms of bigotry) is a matter of individuals who feel they are better than, above, and/or superior to, individuals whom they perceive as 'different.'

 

[tnthomas]

I'm white. I also admit to have some racist feelings. Not that I'm wearing a white sheet, either. One problem I do have with Blacks is Black Culture. I don't live in the "hood". So, how am I supposed understand Black Culture? And if Blacks don't live in my neighborhood, how are they supposed to understand my White Culture? How do we get to our culture?

Well it's not at all uncommon for whites to be unfamiliar with black culture, blacks are only about 12% of the population.

Blacks are familiar with white culture, because it is all around them 24/7.

"How do whites get their culture?" That is an interesting question. I think culture kind of "evolves" in a given group of people. Their thoughts, beliefs, fears, culinary habits, lifestyle(farming, industrial or..?) etc.

 

[AprilT]

There have been a few subjects I've planned to post in this thread, not had time, still extremely busy, so I apologize if this is unclear, blunt, etc., but one point I'd planned to make is addressed in this c/p from a Psychology Today article:

Culture. (Noun). The sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.

​

Though the definition doesn't elaborate, "the sum total of ways" is usually presumed to include language, food, dress, music, and holiday celebrations, as well as less clearly defined concepts such as values, shared points of reference, and norms regarding how we interact and relate to each other.
---------------------




With all that in mind, perhaps someone who believes 'Black culture,' 'White culture,' 'Asian culture,' etc. even exists may want to consider it from some examples:

1. Thinking of two individuals I know- one person is a multi-generation descendant of slaves (Africa), one is a second-generation American of Caribbean Island heritage. They grew up in two different parts of the U.S., and are members of two different generations. What 'Black culture' do they have in common?

2. Thinking of two other individuals I knew long ago, both "Asian"- one person escaped Vietnam during the Communist takeover, when I met her she was 30 yrs old and had been in the U.S. only a few years; the other was born in the U.S. to a Chinese-American doctor. They too were members of two different generations, and lived on opposite coasts. What is their 'Asian culture'?

3. The concept of 'White culture' is even more mystifying- considering how many countries around the globe are predominately white, what do they have in common with each other? I'd venture to say "not much." As random examples, a person whose parents or grandparents came from Russia has little 'culture' in common with a person whose parents or grandparents came from England.

I don't mean to diss anyone or anyone's viewpoints, but in my opinion attaching the concept of 'culture' to a race or other inborn factor (ethnicity, etc.) is ridiculous. I believe if 'culture' exists at all, it's based on where a person is from, where he/she grew up, the ways the person absorbed in his/her early environments, etc.- and their race has virtually nothing to do with it.

You sound very wise.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this Black culture = hood or hood = black culture is it? I'm not sure I get that hood connection having not been born in nor raised in the hood, but, being black and loving my birth country's (America), culture and other cultures as well. Do some people think the culture of black people is that of this place they consider the hood?

The truth of the matter, many Black people are only rediscovering black culture since that was something that was taken away from them as slaves so exactly what one is referring to as black culture gets confusing when that question is asked sometimes. We didn't all grow up in the same geographical areas with the same principals and beliefs just as I wouldn't think non-blacks would have. I can appreciate one wanting to understand if they so wish and want the insight, to ask questions without preconceived notions about those they seek knowledge of.

 

[applecruncher]

I'm white. I also admit to have some racist feelings. Not that I'm wearing a white sheet, either. One problem I do have with Blacks is Black Culture. I don't live in the "hood". So, how am I supposed understand Black Culture? And if Blacks don't live in my neighborhood, how are they supposed to understand my White Culture? How do we get to our culture?

Not understanding your reference to "the hood".

That would be like me saying "I don't live in a trashy trailer park, so I don't know about "white culture". How does THAT sound, hmmmmmmmm? :wink:

 

[applecruncher]

So explain racism?

Easy.

Racism is the belief in the superiority of one race over another, which often results in discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity

 

[hearlady]

There have been a few subjects I've planned to post in this thread, not had time, still extremely busy, so I apologize if this is unclear, blunt, etc., but one point I'd planned to make is addressed in this c/p from a Psychology Today article:

Culture. (Noun). The sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.

​

Though the definition doesn't elaborate, "the sum total of ways" is usually presumed to include language, food, dress, music, and holiday celebrations, as well as less clearly defined concepts such as values, shared points of reference, and norms regarding how we interact and relate to each other.
---------------------




With all that in mind, perhaps someone who believes 'Black culture,' 'White culture,' 'Asian culture,' etc. even exists may want to consider it from some examples:

1. Thinking of two individuals I know- one person is a multi-generation descendant of slaves (Africa), one is a second-generation American of Caribbean Island heritage. They grew up in two different parts of the U.S., and are members of two different generations. What 'Black culture' do they have in common?

2. Thinking of two other individuals I knew long ago, both "Asian"- one person escaped Vietnam during the Communist takeover, when I met her she was 30 yrs old and had been in the U.S. only a few years; the other was born in the U.S. to a Chinese-American doctor. They too were members of two different generations, and lived on opposite coasts. What is their 'Asian culture'?

3. The concept of 'White culture' is even more mystifying- considering how many countries around the globe are predominately white, what do they have in common with each other? I'd venture to say "not much." As random examples, a person whose parents or grandparents came from Russia has little 'culture' in common with a person whose parents or grandparents came from England.

I don't mean to diss anyone or anyone's viewpoints, but in my opinion attaching the concept of 'culture' to a race or other inborn factor (ethnicity, etc.) is ridiculous. I believe if 'culture' exists at all, it's based on where a person is from, where he/she grew up, the ways the person absorbed in his/her early environments, etc.- and their race has virtually nothing to do with it.

Great post.

 

[hearlady]

Not understanding your reference to "the hood".

That would be like me saying "I don't live in a trashy trailer park, so I don't know about "white culture". How does THAT sound, hmmmmmmmm? :wink:

You mean all blacks don't live in the hood?
Seriously, we know what some whites wrongly consider all black culture but what do blacks consider black culture?

 

[hollydolly]

Great post.

Same from me, JaniceM ....most eminently profound and honest post so far....

 

[hearlady]

You mean all blacks don't live in the hood?
Seriously, we know what some whites wrongly consider all black culture but what do blacks consider black culture?

I guess I just answered my own question. It depends where you're from, your relatives, etc. Duh accepted.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

I'm not an advocate of racism. But abstract theoretical definitions don't solve racism. We, in the United State, have an American Culture. Those Aussies have their own culture. Japanese have, etc. etc., Since I'm an American, who was born in that nation, grew up, absorbed the environment, and beliefs of my White American Culture. I did not see a living Black person till I was 22. Since race doesn't have anything to do with my "culture", how did I even notice he was Black?

 

[AprilT]

I'm not an advocate of racism. But abstract theoretical definitions don't solve racism. We, in the United State, have an American Culture. Those Aussies have their own culture. Japanese have, etc. etc., Since I'm an American, who was born in that nation, grew up, absorbed the environment, and beliefs of my White American Culture. I did not see a living Black person till I was 22. Since race doesn't have anything to do with my "culture", how did I even notice he was Black?

Can you please define American culture, because as far as I know it encompasses various ethnic groups overall. And how you notice this he was a black person, only you can answer that question. I know I and most people recognize and don't deny differences, we just often don't grapple with embracing people who in some way have differences in one way or another about them. I know some people were taught as youngsters to be weary of differences, but as adults I'd think we would have learned to think with reason about seeing other people as just that, people and just speak to them that way. Find a commonality if one wants to understand or don't is my motto.

People will click or not click regardless of skin color; if we put obstacles in the way based on a person's ethnic make up, that's the individuals personal issues making them choose to alinate.

 

[Warrigal]

:lol: It is widely known that Aussies are almost entirely uncultured.

Jokes aside, I'm trying to think about how we can overcome racist thought and feelings within ourselves. I do think that everyone grows up in circumstances that teach us to fear or despise people of some other race or culture. In my case, from my mother's hatred of the Japanese based on her war time experiences, I developed a suspicion of people with Asian faces. I saw so few dark skinned people where I lived that I considered them to be exotic. I was shocked by my reaction when my younger sister was dating an Asian boy and later she confessed that she ended the relationship because she was similarly disturbed by his race.

I have learned to overcome these suspicions and fears and am rarely troubled by negative thoughts now. They have lost their power over me.

I hold to the principle that feelings are but temporary reactions that rise up and then subside unless we choose to reinforce them ourselves. I have learned that love is not a feeling but a choice, a decision to behave in a positive way rather than a warm fuzzy feeling. Sometimes it is hard to love someone but we can choose to do it if we but try. As in all things, practice eventually makes perfect.

By the same reckoning, racism is not what we feel or think, but what we choose to do. Racism is also a choice. We can choose not to avoid people we fear, choose not to look down on people or to accept stereotypes as factual. Or we can live within an ethnic ghetto behind psychological barriers to protect ourselves from our own feelings. Both are choices but only the first will help us to grow up and leave our racist feelings behind us.

 

[ray188]

Can you please define American culture, because as far as I know it encompasses various ethnic groups overall. And how you notice this he was a black person, only you can answer that question. I know I and most people recognize and don't deny differences, we just often don't grapple with embracing people who in some way have differences in one way or another about them. I know some people were taught as youngsters to be weary of differences, but as adults I'd think we would have learned to think with reason about seeing other people as just that, people and just speak to them that way. Find a commonality if one wants to understand or don't is my motto.

People will click or not click regardless of skin color; if we put obstacles in the way based on a person's ethnic make up, that's the individuals personal issues making them choose to alinate.

You're right, our culture is a combination of cultures without dismissing any. For some reason, that has not worked with the black culture. Too many political and cultural leaders have looked on the black community as something apart and separate needing special treatment. This has led to that sense of alienation you referred to.

 

[hearlady]

That's political culture.

 

[Gary O']

I'm just gonna put this here
Sumpm I just run across that I writ a few years ago for a thread somewhat like this one

(lotsa good thoughts here, BTW...makes me think...I do hate that)

anyway;

The race card

It’s the one most worn, most dog eared in the deck.
I think its safe now to discard it, all suits.
Hasn’t really been in play since the sixties.
‘Course, that’s my opine.

Prejudice?
Am I prejudiced?
Yes, yessir, I am.
Raised that way.
I’d like not to be.
Tried
Can’t
Oh, well

Thing is, you are too.

Heh, I spend a lotta my free time poking fun of folks.
All folks.
Fat ones
Skinny ones
Old ones
New ones
Colored ones...wait
No, you wait.
I’m pullin’ the prejudice card too.
Turns out we are all colored.
I tried to get a movement started
Beige Lives Matter
Didn’t take for some reason.
That’s OK, though.
Not gonna dedicate this short life to a cause like that anyway.
I’d rather just talk one on one with folks.

My lady thinks I’ve gone ‘round the bend sometimes, ‘cause I make so much fun of everything ‘everything’s a joke with you...everything’.
Cheap dates, her and me.
We could sit at a bench all afternoon in a shopping mall and poke fun of everbod that happens by.
She used to not want to hear what I was thinking, got disgusted with me, so I’d sit there, chortling to myself, until; ‘OK, what’s so funny’
Try it
Hilarious

No, everything is not a joke.

I wish folks’d stop making it one.

 

[OneEyedDiva]

Congratulations on Being a Good Person, But That Doesn’t Excuse Racism.

1. Stop creating false equivalencies.

Saying “Black Lives Matter” does not mean that other lives do not. Standing in opposition to police brutality is not the same as hating all cops. Talking about racism is not the same as an indictment of a person’s character.


2. Stop making excuses.

We do not live in a “post-racial society.” Let me burst that bubble for you now. You may work, live and frequent places that have a little diversity, but if that is the case, there is a big world outside of your day-to-day life.


3. Stop checking out of the conversation.

Does talking about race make you uncomfortable? Living the realities of racial injustice is not exactly a walk in the park either. Everyone needs to be part of that conversation, no matter how uncomfortable it is. Yes, this includes you.

(full article)

http://educationpost.org/congratulations-on-being-a-good-person-but-that-doesnt-excuse-racism/

You have certainly started an extremely interesting thread here Applecruncher! Thank you! I'm going to share this particular post as well as the one headed Why White People Can't Face Up To Racism, if you don't mind. I'm in a group where racial issues often get glossed over so both these articles are so relevant. That this thread is so long and basically so civil and informative also speaks to the character of the members here.

 

[AprilT]

You're right, our culture is a combination of cultures without dismissing any. For some reason, that has not worked with the black culture. Too many political and cultural leaders have looked on the black community as something apart and separate needing special treatment. This has led to that sense of alienation you referred to.

Sigh, some people just don't get it and never will as I don't know what this black culture is you are referring to because obviously, I and so many others I no are a part of it as you and so many of your mindset are determined to believe represents all people of a particular skin pigment. But that's OK, I live and enjoy a life among the vast open minded people in America who don't lock people under a blanket way of being nor thinking.

I'm not here to change the minds of people who are set in their thoughts about people who are different in some way they see. Some of us out here won't see the history that set forth certain events that result in why some things are as they are for people.

Communities fighting for certain needs have nothing to do with culture. People can keep changing the bar as to what separates and causes them to alienate themselves finding reason to want to nitpick, that's okay, we all must choose our path of destruction, negativity to give us reason for whatever warped thoughts we may have. The black communities are easy targets to pick, I get it, but there are many communities who fight for their right to exist with the full rights of everyone else. Italian-American, Irish-America, Asian-American and many other community leaders exist in this country, but, yes, the ones most easy to spot and separate will always be disdained by those who see race. Ignorance of the reasons behind it all isn't an excuse to hold on to the feelings to keep pointing a finger at people acting as if all things are just and equal in the treatment of the people.

Leaders in a community defending the rights of a people hasn't a thing to do with causing alienation that I know of. Those mistreating people bare that responsibility, those denying the existence of a problem and continuing to stick their heads in the ground because they they can't face a problem are what keeps them from uniting for the greater good of all people. Either you are all my people black white or other or you're not; it's up to the individual how they want to see it. If one wants to see black people as something else, that's that person's choice to keep harping on it and finding reasons to do so.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

About my meeting my first Black person. Somehow, that meeting didn't seem like an ethereal level of conscience. I guess since he had Black features and skin, I assumed he was Black. You can't say, "our culture is a combination of cultures without dismissing any", and in the next sentence talk about how the Black Culture doesn't fit in. Textbook definitions aside, the predominant culture in the U.S. is White American Culture.( I believe there's articles online about that.) And there is a distinct Black Culture. We are not all loving brothers and sisters, dancing in the meadow to the same music. We have not come to the point that my essence of being recognized the essence of being in that first Black guy that I met. But the fact that my skin is white and his skin is black continues, with centuries of emotional baggage, to divide us. Smaller cultures assimilate into the larger culture. It's a question of if, and how much the Black Culture is willing to cede, and if, and how much the White American Culture is willing to accept.

 

[AprilT]

About my meeting my first Black person. Somehow, that meeting didn't seem like an ethereal level of conscience. I guess since he had Black features and skin, I assumed he was Black. You can't say, "our culture is a combination of cultures without dismissing any", and in the next sentence talk about how the Black Culture doesn't fit in. Textbook definitions aside, the predominant culture in the U.S. is White American Culture.( I believe there's articles online about that.) And there is a distinct Black Culture. We are not all loving brothers and sisters, dancing in the meadow to the same music. We have not come to the point that my essence of being recognized the essence of being in that first Black guy that I met. But the fact that my skin is white and his skin is black continues, with centuries of emotional baggage, to divide us. Smaller cultures assimilate into the larger culture. It's a question of if, and how much the Black Culture is willing to cede, and if, and how much the White American Culture is willing to accept.

There you have it in a nutshell what one thinks and is at issue for any one individual. Blacks should cede. Should they kneel while their at it. Hilariously sad.

No one is talking of ignoring differences and holding tulips nor loving everyone, but, as long as we want to hold on to harbor particular feelings one will always think a certain way, call it prejudice, racist, it is what it is. If embracing one feels there's a giving up of ones own individuality, that seems a very rigid way of being to me. Sounds like much I hear on the political front these days spoken by the white nationalist about they won't take our culture away. Sorry, if I'm wrong, but this is what I'm hearing ring loud and clear. A protest of you won't tear away my countries white dominate culture.

Emotional baggage, you mean slavery, well, that's not my fault, who doesn't have some kind of emotional baggage of some sort, religious baggage gender baggage of the neanderthal kind. Should we take things back to the wild wild west is that another cultural miss. Would it make things better if the north would have ceded to the south. Perhaps that is the big hurt many are feeling; I don't doubt it. I can sympathize if we were being more honest about it, I'd like to see into the heart of the people and understand, but, not at sacrifice at turning the clock back as some appear to long for.