What Do Real Muslims Believe?

[senior chef]

There are about 1.9 billion Muslims in the worlds, and every one of them thinks they are the real muslim. Likewise, there are about 2.5 billion Christians, and every one of them thinks they are the real christian.

And who's to say that any one of them is wrong??

That's pretty easy to answer. When a public bus is traveling down the street, filled with women and children, and some terrorist group blows them up, I'd say, without any doubt, that they are wrong.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "Muslims have been murdering Jews long before there was a state of Israel and long before there was a country called America.

 

[senior chef]

WRONG, WRONG. WRONG!!!!! Know your history!!!! I do not give orders, I am trying to educate you!

Educate me ? ha ha That's a laugh. You are just a trouble maker. Remember when you called me "just a jumped up waiter. wanna be chef ?"
There is absolutely nothing can say on ANY subject that I have the slightest interest in.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Thank god I'm an atheist!

 

[Shero]

Educate me ? ha ha That's a laugh. You are just a trouble maker. Remember when you called me "just a jumped up waiter. wanna be chef ?"
There is absolutely nothing can say on ANY subject that I have the slightest interest in.

That's a shame, because you can learn a lot from anyone who does a lot of research and that includes me!
So far I cannot say the same about you, but I am willing to wait, and learn from you, if you have anything of value to impart in the future.

 

[Shero]

Thank god I'm an atheist!

I am not on the side of any particular religion. I am on the side of historical fact and research, when I see it messed up, I feel, I have to intervene!

 

[Lara]

Many repent on their deaths beds and, while they are sincere, they are judged on the sum total of their life and words. God judges all.

If you're talking about Christianity, and you are I assume, then you are taking that out of context and adding a face palm....which gives it a negative twist and thus a judgement of your own that isn't quite the whole truth.

Yes, repenting on one's death bed is acceptable if sincere (they only miss out on a life of blessings here on earth but won't miss out in eternal life) and yes, Christians will appear at the judgement seat but it will be more of an awards ceremony than a trial...so to speak.. If you are interested as to what really happens for Christians at the judgement seat then here it is from the source...the Bible:

"There will be another kind of judgment for all those who have been redeemed by God’s Son. Second Corinthians 5:10 says, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body (aka church or group of likeminded Christians), whether good or evil” (cf. Romans 14:10). This judgment for those who are “in Christ” is not to determine eternal destiny but to give rewards for godly service and faithfulness (Matthew 16:27; Revelation 22:12). Jesus commanded us to store up treasure in heaven (Luke 12:33). This treasure will be revealed at the judgment seat of Christ. This glorious day will be more like an awards ceremony than a trial, because everyone present has already had their eternal fate secured when they were born again (John 3:3). Jesus Himself will give us crowns and treasure to enjoy for all eternity according to what we have done with all He had entrusted to us (Matthew 25:21).

God’s desire is that His people learn to walk in holiness and fellowship with Him (Romans 8:29). As any loving parent would do, God will bring unpleasant consequences upon His children for rebellion. He expects the ones He has redeemed by the blood of His Son to set the example for the rest of the world. If the church is not in pursuit of holiness, the world sees no need to change its allegiance. So judgment begins in the household of God, with His own children, as He teaches us to live like Jesus.

 

[Buckeye]

That's pretty easy to answer. When a public bus is traveling down the street, filled with women and children, and some terrorist group blows them up, I'd say, without any doubt, that they are wrong.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "Muslims have been murdering Jews long before there was a state of Israel and long before there was a country called America.

You are free to say what they did is wrong to you, but that doesn't make them less of a Muslim in their mind. Same with Timothy McVey. You and I think what he did was wrong, but at the time he thought he was following God's will.

My point is, no one can define what "real muslims believe" (or "real christians").

 

[oldiebutgoody]

What did Mohammed have to say about the Jews ?
"Judgement day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Jews will hide behind the rocks and trees, but the rocks and trees will say, "Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him".

Sad to say but in the New Testament there is a reference to Jesus calling certain Jews sons of the devil, murderer, and all that. There are other less than benign references to Jews.

 

[Warrigal]

Jesus was a practising Jew. He was calling out injustice, not a faith or a race.
I cannot be more specific without a reference.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

There is also the reference to the church in ancient Philadelphia where it was said " I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet'' Rev 3:7

Many anti Jewish references in the New Testament. These references were used by professing Christians such as King Ferdinand and Hitler as "justifications" for persecuting innocent Jews.

 

[Aneeda72]

If you're talking about Christianity, and you are I assume, then you are taking that out of context and adding a face palm....which gives it a negative twist and thus a judgement of your own that isn't quite the whole truth.

Yes, repenting on one's death bed is acceptable if sincere (they only miss out on a life of blessings here on earth but won't miss out in eternal life) and yes, Christians will appear at the judgement seat but it will be more of an awards ceremony than a trial...so to speak.. If you are interested as to what really happens for Christians at the judgement seat then here it is from the source...the Bible:

"There will be another kind of judgment for all those who have been redeemed by God’s Son. Second Corinthians 5:10 says, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body (aka church or group of likeminded Christians), whether good or evil” (cf. Romans 14:10). This judgment for those who are “in Christ” is not to determine eternal destiny but to give rewards for godly service and faithfulness (Matthew 16:27; Revelation 22:12). Jesus commanded us to store up treasure in heaven (Luke 12:33). This treasure will be revealed at the judgment seat of Christ. This glorious day will be more like an awards ceremony than a trial, because everyone present has already had their eternal fate secured when they were born again (John 3:3). Jesus Himself will give us crowns and treasure to enjoy for all eternity according to what we have done with all He had entrusted to us (Matthew 25:21).

God’s desire is that His people learn to walk in holiness and fellowship with Him (Romans 8:29). As any loving parent would do, God will bring unpleasant consequences upon His children for rebellion. He expects the ones He has redeemed by the blood of His Son to set the example for the rest of the world. If the church is not in pursuit of holiness, the world sees no need to change its allegiance. So judgment begins in the household of God, with His own children, as He teaches us to live like Jesus.

You seem to use God and JC interchangeably-as if they are the same. They are not. My son may be biologically linked to his father, but he is NOT his father. Therefore, his judgement of situations will be different. I don’t think I said anything about JC. God’s people, the God you speak of, the father of JC, those people were not Christians, they were Jews.

Again, reliance on the Bible, and the words contained in it, as the absolute truth are a mistake. It is easy to pick and choose verses to support ones position since the Bible was written by many different men. I could search and find verses to support my position but I won’t bother.

In point of fact, believers will be judged. Judged and judged again. By who remains a mystery

 

[Shero]

.
Note to Diva: Last evening I did not give you a satisfactory reply because I was tired after two days of moving. I still may not understand what you mean, but will try:

Lara says: “Allah and God are not really the same.” For her that is true because according to her religion God is Jesus -so- in my humble opinion you should not feel you can dispute that.

Diva says: “Lara...I beg to differ. Jesus is not God.” For you this is true too because according to your religion Jesus is not God.

So, therefore we reach a stalemate since you are both correct according to your religious teaching.

 

[Aneeda72]

.
Note to Diva: Last evening I did not give you a satisfactory reply because I was tired after two days of moving. I still may not understand what you mean, but will try:

Lara says: “Allah and God are not really the same.” For her that is true because according to her religion God is Jesus -so- in my humble opinion you should not feel you can dispute that.

Diva says: “Lara...I beg to differ. Jesus is not God.” For you this is true too because according to your religion Jesus is not God.

So, therefore we reach a stalemate since you are both correct according to your religious teaching.

Except while Lara has a tendency to interchangeably use the words JC and God when referring to a/her deity and beliefs, @Lara knows that JC is not God, but the son of God. And almost no one even mentions the Holy Spirit, formerly known as the Holy Ghost.

A rose by any other name is still a rose, if it quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck, it’s probably a duck, and there is only one GOD-the great I AM-whose actual name we do not know; but who I know as GOD and Diva knows as Allah and others may know as the man in the moon.

Just saying @Shero

 

[Shero]

Except while Lara has a tendency to interchangeably use the words JC and God when referring to a/her deity and beliefs, @Lara knows that JC is not God, but the son of God. And almost no one even mentions the Holy Spirit, formerly known as the Holy Ghost.

A rose by any other name is still a rose, if it quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck, it’s probably a duck, and there is only one GOD-the great I AM-whose actual name we do not know; but who I know as GOD and Diva knows as Allah and others may know as the man in the moon.

Just saying @Shero

Oui, and I still say God has no religion

 

[Warrigal]

There is also the reference to the church in ancient Philadelphia where it was said " I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet'' Rev 3:7

Many anti Jewish references in the New Testament. These references were used by professing Christians such as King Ferdinand and Hitler as "justifications" for persecuting innocent Jews.

I know that there are NT references that are hostile to the Jews. They crop up in some of the epistles and in Revelation as far as I remember. Jesus was not anti Jewish. He was aghast at corruption in the Temple and religious leaders making life very hard for the poor. He started out being harsh to the Syrophoenician woman but her words changed him.

IMO every ancient text, religious or simply literary, contains passages that today we would consider to be quite racist because that is exactly how people in those times regarded outsiders. If anyone cares to read the original text of Robinson Crusoe or Tarzan stories the overt racism will affront you. An understanding of context and history is needed to look beyond some passages to find deeper meanings.

I agree with Oldiebutgoodie that some people latch onto passages that they can use to further their own ends.

 

[Nathan]

You are free to say what they did is wrong to you, but that doesn't make them less of a Muslim in their mind. Same with Timothy McVey. You and I think what he did was wrong, but at the time he thought he was following God's will.

From what I've read about Timothy McVeigh, his early childhood followed the classic path of a future serial killer. He was vehemently anti-government, and became thoroughly baptized in the uber Right-Wing culture and mindset.
"following God's will"...? I rather doubt his sincerity, inmates(especially on death row) will make all sorts of claims to 'enhance' their image.

 

[Aneeda72]

Oui, and I still say God has no religion

And I agree, religion was invented by man

 

[senior chef]

And I agree, religion was invented by man

I totally agree.
Not only that, but people can read into The Bible, anything they wish to see.
Example: One Christian sect says that consumption of alcohol is a mortal sin. Most Christian sects, however, believe that Jesus and his followers regularly consumed wine.
****************************************************************************************************
As a side note: Years ago, a group of Christians attempted to recruit me into their church. They told me , and I quote, "You are going to burn in hell for all eternity for smoking cigarettes" unquote
*****************************************************************************************
When it comes to comparing Christianity with Islam, one thing is without doubt. We do not see Christians flying jet planes into buildings filled with people.

 

[Lara]

Sad to say but in the New Testament there is a reference to Jesus calling certain Jews sons of the devil, murderer, and all that. There are other less than benign references to Jews.

You seem to use God and JC interchangeably-as if they are the same. They are not. My son may be biologically linked to his father, but he is NOT his father. Therefore, his judgement of situations will be different. I don’t think I said anything about JC. God’s people, the God you speak of, the father of JC, those people were not Christians, they were Jews.

Again, reliance on the Bible, and the words contained in it, as the absolute truth are a mistake. It is easy to pick and choose verses to support ones position since the Bible was written by many different men. I could search and find verses to support my position but I won’t bother.

In point of fact, believers will be judged. Judged and judged again. By who remains a mystery

Except while Lara has a tendency to interchangeably use the words JC and God when referring to a/her deity and beliefs, Lara knows that JC is not God, but the son of God. And almost no one even mentions the Holy Spirit, formerly known as the Holy Ghost.

A rose by any other name is still a rose, if it quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck, it’s probably a duck, and there is only one GOD-the great I AM-whose actual name we do not know; but who I know as GOD and Diva knows as Allah and others may know as the man in the moon.

Just saying @Shero

@OldiebutGoodie ...Jesus was a Jew. He never called any Jew "the devil" nor "a murderer". Jesus loves everyone.

@Aneeda72 ...Jesus was a Jew. I never said Jesus was a Christian.

@Aneeda72 ...Why did you say, "Lara knows that JC is not God". My belief is that Jesus IS God. Just because your "biological son is not his father" has nothing to do the Eternal Almighty Creator and Intelligent designer who is capable of anything. Comparing your son's earthly father with The Father is apples & oranges.

I believe God is a Spirit in 3 forms for separate purposes:

1...our Father the almighty creator,
2. Jesus in human form to be able to relate to us, communicate with us, and save us from punishment for our sins
3. The Holy spirit who is our helper and dwells inside of us if we invite him in.

I simply believe because the Bible says so and I choose to believe the Bible...but you certainly can choose whatever you like....I don't care if someone chooses otherwise.
`

 

[Pepper]

How did

What Do Real Muslims Believe?​

become about the #1 spot holder on my "Top Ten Jews Who Changed the World" list? Oh, right, I remember.

 

[Aneeda72]

@OldiebutGoodie ...Jesus was a Jew. He never called any Jew "the devil" nor "a murderer". Jesus loves everyone.

@Aneeda72 ...Jesus was a Jew. I never said Jesus was a Christian.

@Aneeda72 ...Why did you say, "Lara knows that JC is not God". My belief is that Jesus IS God. Just because your "biological son is not his father" has nothing to do the Eternal Almighty Creator and Intelligent designer who is capable of anything. Comparing your son's earthly father with The Father is apples & oranges.

I believe God is a Spirit in 3 forms for separate purposes:

1...our Father the almighty creator,
2. Jesus in human form to be able to relate to us, communicate with us, and save us from punishment for our sins
3. The Holy spirit who is our helper and dwells inside of us if we invite him in.

I simply believe because the Bible says so and I choose to believe the Bible...but you certainly can choose whatever you like....I don't care if someone chooses otherwise.
`

I said you know JC is not GOD ( I am referring to God the Father) guess I was not specifically enough for you so I will rephrase. I believe you know, due to item 1. above that JC is not God the father. . If I am wrong and you don’t know the difference, well then, you’ve corrected me. Got to go MY son just came over.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Lara, Jesus was a Jew. He never called any Jew "the devil" nor a "murderer". Jesus loves everyone.

Speaking to a group of Jews, Jesus says, “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44).

The Bible tells us 'that which is of flesh is flesh, that which is of spirit is spirit'. Meaning something can only come from its source. In calling those Jews sons of the devil, he was calling them devils. That is not to say he was directing those words to all Jews, only to those specifically.

 

[Lara]

Speaking to a group of Jews, Jesus says, “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44).
The Bible tells us 'that which is of flesh is flesh, that which is of spirit is spirit'. Meaning something can only come from its source. In calling those Jews sons of the devil, he was calling them devils. That is not to say he was directing those words to all Jews, only to those specifically.

Thank you @OldiebutGoodie for posting your reference. When I read your post I was both surprised and yet completely trusted that there was a truth to be told that would clear this up. And, yes, I read the whole context of John 8:31-58 (not just verse 44) and sure enough, I then understood the true meaning. That's what happens every time a verse is unintentionally taken out of context and I go read it in context.

Jesus was talking to Jews who believed in him...but also to those who didn't and had many questions for Jesus. Jesus said, "If you remain my disciples, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free". Then some in the crowd asked, "But we are descendants of Abraham and are not slaves to anyone, what makes you think you will set us free?

Jesus replied that everyone who sins is a slave of sin and not a part of the family of truth, "so if I set you free then you are truly free. Yes, I realize you are descendants of Abraham and yet some of you are trying to kill me because there's no room in your hearts for my message which I heard from God.

"Our father is Abraham they declared!" Jesus replied, "If you were really children of Abraham you would love me because I have come to you from God. God himself is our true Father."

Jesus said to only the unbelieving Jews, your Father is the devil, (meaning the Father of Lies) who was a murderer from the beginning (the devil lied to Adam and Eve causing them to sin which separated them from God aka spiritual death)." Jesus was saying that if they don't believe him (Jesus) then they are choosing the Father of Lies (devil) over God The Father, because Jesus is from God.

Then Jesus asked, "Which of you can truthfully accuse me of sin?" "Anyone who belongs to God listens gladly to the words of God...Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."

I shortened this chapter ten-fold so if I'm not making myself clear you can read the whole chapter of John 31-58...and then you'll hopefully see it as I see it too. Thank you oldiebutgoody for this chance to clarify.

 

[Warrigal]

Thanks Lara. Context is always important.
So is some understanding of location, audience and historical background.
Plucking a sentence or two out to support a point is always problematic.

 

[OneEyedDiva]

Indeed ! I see absolutely no hope that Muslims will ever treat women as real human beings with feelings, needs and rights. The Quran is something straight out of the stone age.

Too bad you are so misinformed. In fact, Muslim women were given rights over 1,400 years ago, as stated in the Holy Quran, that women in this country didn't have, such as the right to own property, own their own businesses, participate in politics, get divorces, receive alimony (except if the woman was found guilty of open lewdness), the right to inheritance and handle their own finances. When I took a womens' study course around 1985 (I went to college as an adult), there were states in this country where women could not inherit property. And do you recall when women's suffrage was and why it took place? Look it up. it's late now so I won't take the time to do what I'd normally do...find links for you.
Also Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said this about husbands and wives and this advice still stands and is often repeated by Muslim Imams and authors. "The best of men are those who are good to their wives" Muslim men are advised concentrate on their wives' good traits and overlook the negative ones. Muslim men are told they should ask their wives' permission to leave the conjugal bed (ie: make sure she's satisfied).They are also advised to seek counsel from their wives in important matters, help their wives around the house and stay involved with raising the children. Muslim husbands and wives are advised to "play together", to enjoy one another and be "blankets" for one another (eg: protection).
Clearly you have overlooked the number of abused women in this country who are not Muslims, whose husbands are not Muslims in keeping with your propensity for tunnel vision! And it's not just some Muslim women who get abused...it's some women of all races, creeds, religions and social backgrounds. Some of that is cultural...not religious.
@Pecos