There have been efforts to control the types of guns sold. Pretty hard to get all in the Congress to agree which and why. So things get controlled and then that gets changed. It is a wide open are for discussion and as long as the Constitution allows all to have guns, it will always be a mixed up setup. I know a couple of weapon control items had been passed and that action was taken to the Supreme Court for decision on legality. As I remember that particular item got returned to private ownership by the courts.
What would you do ? (open-carry rifle in Utah mall)
- Thread starter pchinvegas
- Start date
There have been efforts to control the types of guns sold. Pretty hard to get all in the Congress to agree which and why. So things get controlled and then that gets changed. It is a wide open are for discussion and as long as the Constitution allows all to have guns, it will always be a mixed up setup. I know a couple of weapon control items had been passed and that action was taken to the Supreme Court for decision on legality. As I remember that particular item got returned to private ownership by the courts.
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
No, by my logic there should be laws, laws that have some bite on criminals, not just bind up law-abiding citizens who want nothing more than to defend themselves.
Do you honestly believe that law-breakers are going to follow any laws you pass?
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
The NRA doesn't run things but we do have Shooters and Fishers Party that has managed to win a couple of seats in state parliaments. I wouldn't mind having a bet on where some of their political donations have come from. Their platform seems to be an importation too.
At one stage the Shooters and Fishers held the balance of power in NSW and held the government to ransom demanding the end of marine and national parks as no fishing/no hunting areas.
For all I know they could be affiliated with the NRA but even if they aren't, they copy them. That's why the NRA and it's policies/behaviours is of interest to Australians like me who think shooting in National Parks where people hike and camp is inappropriate. Especially when 'people' includes groups of scouts and cubs and school kids on field trips.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Just stumbled across this lengthy article about a Senate inquiry into illegal firearms and gun violence in Australia.
The inquiry has been hijacked by the gun lobby who deluged the inquiry with submissions and even had an American lobbyist appear via video link. I don't know his name but US members probably do.
http://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/...ck-senate-inquiry/14286744001744#.VShfWrkcQqQ
Do the tactics described in the article sound familiar? Is this an NRA tactic? I suspect they may be behind this ploy but don't really know.
The inquiry has been hijacked by the gun lobby who deluged the inquiry with submissions and even had an American lobbyist appear via video link. I don't know his name but US members probably do.
http://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/...ck-senate-inquiry/14286744001744#.VShfWrkcQqQ
Do the tactics described in the article sound familiar? Is this an NRA tactic? I suspect they may be behind this ploy but don't really know.
Dame Warrigal, Australia has shown the world that guns are not a necessary part of life. I agree that Howard, a man I dislike by the way, did one great thing after Port Arthur by getting rid of a lot of arms out of the country.People would not need to protect themselves if arms of all description were removed.
However that is another story for other countries to deal with in their own way.
However that is another story for other countries to deal with in their own way.
Koala, you are correct. There is a way to end gun ownership in the US quite legally. It would only take a change of our Constitution which means the amendment for gun ownership would have to be changed or removed. We have a procedure just for doing that to our Constitution. It would require some strong actions in a major number of states and lots of support from lots of people all over the US to make that revision of the Constitution take place. It could take a long time, years, to make it happen. So there would only be long term action in order to get the job done.
There really is not much gained by all this local moaning and complaining about how the US handles guns. It is already covered in our Constitution and the only fix would be to get the Congress to start working on the problem. But with many of the Current Congress men and women liking the current gun rules, it would be hard to get started. One person that has spoken out in favor of the current gun rules has been the leader of the Democrat Senate for many many years. Harry Reid has often refused to even discuss messing with the Constitution about guns.
Maybe someday it might happen, but it is very doubtful.
Different states have their own way of handling the problem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution
[h=1]List of amendments to the United States Constitution[/h] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is the complete list of the thirty-three amendments to the United States Constitution which have been adopted by the United States Congress and sent to the states for ratification since the Constitution was put into operation on March 4, 1789. Twenty-seven of these, having been ratified by the requisite number of states, are part of the Constitution. The first ten amendments were adopted and ratified simultaneously and are known collectively as the Bill of Rights. Six amendments adopted by Congress and sent to the states have not been ratified by the required number of states. Four of these amendments are still technically open and pending, one is closed and has failed by its own terms, and one is closed and has failed by the terms of the resolution proposing it.
Approximately 11,539 proposals to amend the Constitution have been introduced in Congress since 1789.[SUP][1][/SUP] Collectively, members of the House and Senate typically propose around 200 amendments during each two–year term of Congress.[SUP][2][/SUP] Most however, never get out of the Congressional committees in which they were proposed, and only a fraction of those that do receive enough support to win Congressional approval to actually go through the constitutional ratification process.
The framers of the Constitution, recognizing the difference between regular legislation and constitutional matters, intended that it be difficult to change the Constitution; but not so difficult as to render it an inflexible instrument of government. The amending process they devised, codified in Article Five of the United States Constitution, has two steps. Proposals to amend the Constitution must be properly Adopted and Ratified before becoming operative.
There really is not much gained by all this local moaning and complaining about how the US handles guns. It is already covered in our Constitution and the only fix would be to get the Congress to start working on the problem. But with many of the Current Congress men and women liking the current gun rules, it would be hard to get started. One person that has spoken out in favor of the current gun rules has been the leader of the Democrat Senate for many many years. Harry Reid has often refused to even discuss messing with the Constitution about guns.
Maybe someday it might happen, but it is very doubtful.
Different states have their own way of handling the problem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution
[h=1]List of amendments to the United States Constitution[/h] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is the complete list of the thirty-three amendments to the United States Constitution which have been adopted by the United States Congress and sent to the states for ratification since the Constitution was put into operation on March 4, 1789. Twenty-seven of these, having been ratified by the requisite number of states, are part of the Constitution. The first ten amendments were adopted and ratified simultaneously and are known collectively as the Bill of Rights. Six amendments adopted by Congress and sent to the states have not been ratified by the required number of states. Four of these amendments are still technically open and pending, one is closed and has failed by its own terms, and one is closed and has failed by the terms of the resolution proposing it.
Approximately 11,539 proposals to amend the Constitution have been introduced in Congress since 1789.[SUP][1][/SUP] Collectively, members of the House and Senate typically propose around 200 amendments during each two–year term of Congress.[SUP][2][/SUP] Most however, never get out of the Congressional committees in which they were proposed, and only a fraction of those that do receive enough support to win Congressional approval to actually go through the constitutional ratification process.
The framers of the Constitution, recognizing the difference between regular legislation and constitutional matters, intended that it be difficult to change the Constitution; but not so difficult as to render it an inflexible instrument of government. The amending process they devised, codified in Article Five of the United States Constitution, has two steps. Proposals to amend the Constitution must be properly Adopted and Ratified before becoming operative.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I agree, Bob, that only the will of the American people will be able to make a difference to the carnage.
That will doesn't seem to be there and that is what puzzles me.
That will doesn't seem to be there and that is what puzzles me.
For most of the people in the US, including the Democrats like Reid, it is the freedom of the people that is important. The fewer restrictions by the government means more freedoms for the people.
The problem is that far too many of the problem makers are not getting enough of the attention they deserve and most of that attention would end up in them being jailed. Jail should be something they don't like such as hard work, education, no basketball courts, no short terms, hard discipline while in jails. Sort of back to some of the older rules for dangerous folks.
Many of the young ones have no father to claim, that should be corrected technically and legally by medical tests and court judgements. Far too many of those poor, low income folks, get grabs at groceries but not any encouragement to get educated. Maybe we should restart the old orphans homes that were around when I was young. My high school principal was a graduate from the orphans home where I lived. It was like a small town. Had a nice size cafeteria, medical section, a church, school facilities, and a number of nice size dorm cottages for the children and members of the community. That was one very good way to control and educate such unwanted persons. Too many of our modern ways of living are just pure nonsense and invitations to having bad results.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Not to mention a generous serving of child abuse - physical, mental and sexual. We're still in the middle of a Royal Commission into child sexual abuse in institutions such as schools, orphanages, even swim coaching schools. The Navy is also condemned as institutional abusers of young trainees. The evidence is appalling and the complainants are legion.
IMO, orphanages are not the answer to the high rate of gun deaths in America. You need to look elsewhere for the cause and the solution.
Sorry, but I don't believe that was why the US dropped the orphan homes at all. I used my school principle to try to avoid this crime nonsense and show real success. Obvious that the homes had a reasonable cross section of mentalities and mind sets and there would be some problem makers as in regular family settings. But in those older times there was less of this do not punish mentality and trouble makers did get punished with reduced freedoms, whatever. Things that nobody seems to want done anymore.
As a adventurous kid I did get called into the police station for something. I got a lot of fear pumped into me by the chief of police. I was scared a plenty but never hit or jailed. Shouting was good enough for me. Another friend of my neighbor hood and his buddy got caught in the city park pushing concrete picnic benches down the hill. teen age smart jerks. The police caught them and they had to push those benches back up the hill into their proper places. It was a long day for them but saved the city the cost of hiring someone to do the job for them.
Child abuse? Not at all. Punishment by hard work and correcting the problem they created, with lots of shouting at them about ever getting caught in trouble again. It worked quite well.
We have come to far away from fixing problems and turning everything over to courts and attorneys in the US. We now seem to think that wasting our money on such means of correcting that mostly the ones with money can get away with even murder. We really need to change the way we do things in the US.
Australia can do as they please.
Since that type of thing is legal in Utah, it could also be his "rough-tough-stupid-male-ego" that is front and center.
Either way, it's moronic, IMO. I was raised with guns; walking around a mall with one slung over the shoulder is not cute. It's a perfect example of taking the Second Amendment waaaaay out of context; this is not the wild west days of old.
I would've probably met his stare head-on and wryly commented "whellll! aren't you CUTE!" Just enough for him to get the point yet hopefully not getting the d**n thing pointed at menthego:
The guy needs neutered - I still have my rusty-trusty butter knife somewhere-----------------------:shark:
time to update this thread.
Your comment could be construed easily as a physical threat, but if your dumb enough to take a knife to a gun fight......
Innocent of what? Guilty of what? Your not up on your stats.
Looks like QS had foot in mouth disease again mixing up the display guns with the private ones, oh well did a good job at changing the topic though.
update on the Utah open carry.
this Friday Texas will join the states that allow open carry, with a few changes, but first some back ground
currently anti gun freaks, such as Bloombergs Everytown and Moms against guns, have been engaging in practice called "swatting". When they see an open carry they have been calling in to police dispatcher "man with gun" or like a recent case at a Walmart taking the situation into their own hands and tackling the guy. In the south a man was showing a pellet gun to his son at the sporting goods counter when one of these calls was made and was shot dead by the police. Of course a wrongful death suit was filed a subpoena produced the name of the caller, who is dening they made the call because of membership in one of the groups. I doubt if the person will have their shoelaces left after legal costs etc.
some towns and city police get around the open carry by arresting the open carrys for disturbing the peace charge. Some states such as Utah have stste laws which specifically block local police from using this charge.
texas goes one further by criminalizing "swatting" which I think will be made a felony. In any case civil action is always open to any open carry who has been victimized by do gooders. So before you jump into what you think are your rights concerning guns on either side it will take some research on your part. Of course you could just key board commando it like most folks here.
almost forgot- for the folks that like to refer to gun etc, in terms of anal complexs, locked in the oral stage, etc, look deep into your own Oedipus complex.
update on the Utah open carry.
this Friday Texas will join the states that allow open carry, with a few changes, but first some back ground
currently anti gun freaks, such as Bloombergs Everytown and Moms against guns, have been engaging in practice called "swatting". When they see an open carry they have been calling in to police dispatcher "man with gun" or like a recent case at a Walmart taking the situation into their own hands and tackling the guy. In the south a man was showing a pellet gun to his son at the sporting goods counter when one of these calls was made and was shot dead by the police. Of course a wrongful death suit was filed a subpoena produced the name of the caller, who is dening they made the call because of membership in one of the groups. I doubt if the person will have their shoelaces left after legal costs etc.
some towns and city police get around the open carry by arresting the open carrys for disturbing the peace charge. Some states such as Utah have stste laws which specifically block local police from using this charge.
texas goes one further by criminalizing "swatting" which I think will be made a felony. In any case civil action is always open to any open carry who has been victimized by do gooders. So before you jump into what you think are your rights concerning guns on either side it will take some research on your part. Of course you could just key board commando it like most folks here.
almost forgot- for the folks that like to refer to gun etc, in terms of anal complexs, locked in the oral stage, etc, look deep into your own Oedipus complex.
Shalimar
SF VIP
- Location
- Vancouver Island Canada
Rt, why so much contempt towards those who do not share your world view? You are a highly educated man, certainly you must be aware of the principles of debate.
Mostly educated in errors in logic, mathematics, fallacies thereof, not a contempt for world anything-- except when it interferes with my freedoms especially constitutional, that draws the line. If your not on this side of the second, you are on the other, just keep your hands were I can see them --
AZ Jim
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- SURPRISE, ARIZONA
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
My dad had a neat little term too... only it pertained to part of one's anatomy stuck up another part. However, I think some people can be really book smart, but people stupid... kwim?
Amazing, my dad had the same saying, must have been the era. However his went a little further " and when it closes off all the other body parts quit" I would look up at him say, so who is the laxative? Mom?
god I love homilies -
AZ Jim
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- SURPRISE, ARIZONA
AZ Jim
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- SURPRISE, ARIZONA
nwc (not worthy of comment).