George Floyd was a victim

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Now you're shifting the goalposts. Your original claim was that he didn't surrender at all.

rgp Thursday at 11:12 AM Post #39)
"That's why he should have surrendered to the arrest.....or did you miss that part somehow ?"


I never said any such thing.....I said had he surrendered , things would have been different. Ended differently . If you can't figure out , that I was referring to an immediate surrender? ...... that's on you!

And here once again, you seem more interested in arguing with me, about my verbiage , than the topic itself.
 

A fuller picture on who George Floyd was:

George Floyd, From ‘I Want to Touch the World’ to ‘I Can’t Breathe’
Mr. Floyd had big plans for life nearly 30 years ago. His death in police custody is powering a movement against police brutality and racial injustice.
NY Times 09June2020
Full article: https://www.nytimes.com/article/george-floyd-who-is.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

(excerpt)... As a tight end, Mr. Floyd helped power his football team to the state championship game in 1992. In one exhilarating moment that was captured on video — and circulated after his death — Mr. Floyd soars above an opponent in the end zone to catch a touchdown pass.

After graduating from high school, Mr. Floyd left Texas on a basketball scholarship to South Florida Community College (now South Florida State College). “I was looking for a power forward and he fit the bill. He was athletic and I liked the way he handled the ball,” said George Walker, who recruited Mr. Floyd. “He was a starter and scored 12 to 14 points and seven to eight rebounds.”

Mr. Floyd transferred two years later, in 1995, to Texas A&M University’s Kingsville campus, but he did not stay long. He returned home to Houston — and to the Third Ward — without a degree.

Known locally as the Tré, the Third Ward, south of downtown, is among the city’s historic black neighborhoods, and it has been featured in the music of one of the most famous people to grow up there, Beyoncé. At times, life in the Bricks was unforgiving. Poverty, drugs, gangs and violence scarred many Third Ward families. Several of Mr. Floyd’s classmates did not live past their 20s.

Soon after returning, Mr. Floyd started rapping. He appeared as Big Floyd on mixtapes created by DJ Screw, a fixture in Houston’s hip-hop scene in the 1990s. His voice deep, his rhymes purposefully delivered at a slow-motion clip, Mr. Floyd rapped about “choppin’ blades” — driving cars with oversize rims — and his Third Ward pride.

For about a decade starting in his early 20s, Mr. Floyd had a string of arrests in Houston, according to court and police records. One of those arrests, for a $10 drug deal in 2004, cost him 10 months in a state jail.

Four years later, Mr. Floyd pleaded guilty to aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon and spent four years in prison. He was released in 2013 and returned home again — this time to begin the long, hard work of trying to turn his life around, using his missteps as a lesson for others.

Stephen Jackson, a retired professional basketball player from Port Arthur, Texas, met Mr. Floyd a year or two before Mr. Jackson joined the N.B.A. They had sports in common, Mr. Jackson said, but they also looked alike — enough to call each other “twin” as a term of endearment.

“I tell people all the time, the only difference between me and George Floyd, the only difference between me and my twin, the only difference between me and Georgie, is the fact that I had more opportunities,” he said, later adding, “If George would have had more opportunities, he might have been a pro athlete in two sports.”

After prison, Mr. Floyd became even more committed to his church. Inspired by a daughter, Gianna Floyd, born after he was released, Mr. Floyd spent a lot of time at Resurrection Houston, a church that holds many of its services on the basketball court in the middle of Cuney Homes. He would set up chairs and drag out to the center of the court the service’s main attraction — the baptism tub.

“We’d baptize people on the court and we’ve got this big old horse trough. And he’d drag that thing by himself onto that court,” said Patrick Ngwolo, a lawyer and pastor of Resurrection Houston, who described Mr. Floyd as a father figure for younger community residents.

Eventually, Mr. Floyd became involved in a Christian program with a history of taking men to Minnesota from the Third Ward and providing them with drug rehabilitation and job placement services. “When you say, ‘I’m going to Minnesota,’ everybody knows you’re going to this church-work program out of Minnesota,” Mr. Ngwolo said, “and you’re getting out of this environment.” His move would be a fresh start, Mr. Ngwolo said, his story one of redemption.

In Minnesota, Mr. Floyd lived in a red clapboard duplex with two roommates on the eastern edge of St. Louis Park, a leafy, gentrifying Minneapolis suburb. Beginning sometime in 2017, he worked as a security guard at the Salvation Army’s Harbor Light Center, a downtown homeless shelter and transitional housing facility. The staff members got to know Mr. Floyd as someone with a steady temperament, whose instinct to protect employees included walking them to their cars.

“It takes a special person to work in the shelter environment,” said Brian Molohon, executive director of development at the Salvation Army Northern Division. “Every day you are bombarded with heartache and brokenness.”

Even as Mr. Floyd settled into his position, he looked for other jobs. While working at the Salvation Army, he answered a job ad for a bouncer at Conga Latin Bistro, a restaurant and dance club. Jovanni Thunstrom, the owner, said Mr. Floyd quickly became part of the work family. He came in early and left late. And though he tried, he never quite mastered salsa dancing.

“Right away I liked his attitude,” said Mr. Thunstrom, who was also Mr. Floyd’s landlord. “He would shake your hand with both hands. He would bend down to greet you.”

Mr. Floyd kept a Bible by his bed. Often, he read it aloud. And despite his height, Mr. Floyd would fold himself in the hallway to frequently pray with Theresa Scott, one of his roommates. “He had this real cool way of talking. His voice reminded me of Ray Charles. He’d talk fast and he was so soft-spoken,” said Alvin Manago, 55, who met Mr. Floyd at a 2016 softball game. They bonded instantly and became roommates. “He had this low-pitched bass. You had to get used to his accent to understand him. He’d say, ‘Right-on, right-on, right-on.’”

Mr. Floyd spent the final weeks of his life recovering from the coronavirus, which he learned he had in early April. After he was better, he started spending more time with his girlfriend, and he had not seen his roommates in a few weeks, Mr. Manago said.

Like millions of people, his roommates in the city that was to be his fresh start watched the video that captured Mr. Floyd taking his last breaths. They heard him call out for his late mother — “Mama! Mama!”

On Tuesday morning, 15 days after that anguished cry, Mr. Floyd will be laid to rest beside her.
 
A fuller picture on who George Floyd was:

George Floyd, From ‘I Want to Touch the World’ to ‘I Can’t Breathe’
Mr. Floyd had big plans for life nearly 30 years ago. His death in police custody is powering a movement against police brutality and racial injustice.
NY Times 09June2020
Full article: https://www.nytimes.com/article/george-floyd-who-is.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

(excerpt)... As a tight end, Mr. Floyd helped power his football team to the state championship game in 1992. In one exhilarating moment that was captured on video — and circulated after his death — Mr. Floyd soars above an opponent in the end zone to catch a touchdown pass.

After graduating from high school, Mr. Floyd left Texas on a basketball scholarship to South Florida Community College (now South Florida State College). “I was looking for a power forward and he fit the bill. He was athletic and I liked the way he handled the ball,” said George Walker, who recruited Mr. Floyd. “He was a starter and scored 12 to 14 points and seven to eight rebounds.”

Mr. Floyd transferred two years later, in 1995, to Texas A&M University’s Kingsville campus, but he did not stay long. He returned home to Houston — and to the Third Ward — without a degree.

Known locally as the Tré, the Third Ward, south of downtown, is among the city’s historic black neighborhoods, and it has been featured in the music of one of the most famous people to grow up there, Beyoncé. At times, life in the Bricks was unforgiving. Poverty, drugs, gangs and violence scarred many Third Ward families. Several of Mr. Floyd’s classmates did not live past their 20s.

Soon after returning, Mr. Floyd started rapping. He appeared as Big Floyd on mixtapes created by DJ Screw, a fixture in Houston’s hip-hop scene in the 1990s. His voice deep, his rhymes purposefully delivered at a slow-motion clip, Mr. Floyd rapped about “choppin’ blades” — driving cars with oversize rims — and his Third Ward pride.

For about a decade starting in his early 20s, Mr. Floyd had a string of arrests in Houston, according to court and police records. One of those arrests, for a $10 drug deal in 2004, cost him 10 months in a state jail.

Four years later, Mr. Floyd pleaded guilty to aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon and spent four years in prison. He was released in 2013 and returned home again — this time to begin the long, hard work of trying to turn his life around, using his missteps as a lesson for others.

Stephen Jackson, a retired professional basketball player from Port Arthur, Texas, met Mr. Floyd a year or two before Mr. Jackson joined the N.B.A. They had sports in common, Mr. Jackson said, but they also looked alike — enough to call each other “twin” as a term of endearment.

“I tell people all the time, the only difference between me and George Floyd, the only difference between me and my twin, the only difference between me and Georgie, is the fact that I had more opportunities,” he said, later adding, “If George would have had more opportunities, he might have been a pro athlete in two sports.”

After prison, Mr. Floyd became even more committed to his church. Inspired by a daughter, Gianna Floyd, born after he was released, Mr. Floyd spent a lot of time at Resurrection Houston, a church that holds many of its services on the basketball court in the middle of Cuney Homes. He would set up chairs and drag out to the center of the court the service’s main attraction — the baptism tub.

“We’d baptize people on the court and we’ve got this big old horse trough. And he’d drag that thing by himself onto that court,” said Patrick Ngwolo, a lawyer and pastor of Resurrection Houston, who described Mr. Floyd as a father figure for younger community residents.

Eventually, Mr. Floyd became involved in a Christian program with a history of taking men to Minnesota from the Third Ward and providing them with drug rehabilitation and job placement services. “When you say, ‘I’m going to Minnesota,’ everybody knows you’re going to this church-work program out of Minnesota,” Mr. Ngwolo said, “and you’re getting out of this environment.” His move would be a fresh start, Mr. Ngwolo said, his story one of redemption.

In Minnesota, Mr. Floyd lived in a red clapboard duplex with two roommates on the eastern edge of St. Louis Park, a leafy, gentrifying Minneapolis suburb. Beginning sometime in 2017, he worked as a security guard at the Salvation Army’s Harbor Light Center, a downtown homeless shelter and transitional housing facility. The staff members got to know Mr. Floyd as someone with a steady temperament, whose instinct to protect employees included walking them to their cars.

“It takes a special person to work in the shelter environment,” said Brian Molohon, executive director of development at the Salvation Army Northern Division. “Every day you are bombarded with heartache and brokenness.”

Even as Mr. Floyd settled into his position, he looked for other jobs. While working at the Salvation Army, he answered a job ad for a bouncer at Conga Latin Bistro, a restaurant and dance club. Jovanni Thunstrom, the owner, said Mr. Floyd quickly became part of the work family. He came in early and left late. And though he tried, he never quite mastered salsa dancing.

“Right away I liked his attitude,” said Mr. Thunstrom, who was also Mr. Floyd’s landlord. “He would shake your hand with both hands. He would bend down to greet you.”

Mr. Floyd kept a Bible by his bed. Often, he read it aloud. And despite his height, Mr. Floyd would fold himself in the hallway to frequently pray with Theresa Scott, one of his roommates. “He had this real cool way of talking. His voice reminded me of Ray Charles. He’d talk fast and he was so soft-spoken,” said Alvin Manago, 55, who met Mr. Floyd at a 2016 softball game. They bonded instantly and became roommates. “He had this low-pitched bass. You had to get used to his accent to understand him. He’d say, ‘Right-on, right-on, right-on.’”

Mr. Floyd spent the final weeks of his life recovering from the coronavirus, which he learned he had in early April. After he was better, he started spending more time with his girlfriend, and he had not seen his roommates in a few weeks, Mr. Manago said.

Like millions of people, his roommates in the city that was to be his fresh start watched the video that captured Mr. Floyd taking his last breaths. They heard him call out for his late mother — “Mama! Mama!”

On Tuesday morning, 15 days after that anguished cry, Mr. Floyd will be laid to rest beside her.

No saint, certainly, but I appreciate his efforts to turn his life around.

I hope something good comes out of his unjust death. The "defund the police" movement is nonsensical, but Senator Cory Booker is sponsoring a police reform bill which in a better world would find bipartisan support.
 

It’s too much for me, but I suppose it varies from person to person. Just bury him. I wonder whose paying for all this? The city probably. Hopefully he wanted to be buried by his mother. Again personal choice, hope somebody asked him before he died.

I am being cremated with no funeral, and buried as far away from my parents as possible. Just saying.
Yes, the city is probably paying for it. Maybe the same city that hired those four criminal officers.
 
Yes, the city is probably paying for it. Maybe the same city that hired those four criminal officers.
As if the city could predict what they would do, try giving it a rest, you really seem obsessed with them. I am starting to worry about you, really. I’ve stopped watching the news for about a week now, and am responding less to these threads.
 
A fuller picture on who George Floyd was:

George Floyd, From ‘I Want to Touch the World’ to ‘I Can’t Breathe’
Mr. Floyd had big plans for life nearly 30 years ago. His death in police custody is powering a movement against police brutality and racial injustice.
NY Times 09June2020
Full article: https://www.nytimes.com/article/george-floyd-who-is.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

. . . . .

On Tuesday morning, 15 days after that anguished cry, Mr. Floyd will be laid to rest beside her.

Thank you, Lethe200. I have taken your post and shared it with members of an Australian forum who see George Floyd as nothing but a thug. Unfortunately I don't think it will make a big dent in their fixed attitudes but I keep trying.
 
It’s too much for me, but I suppose it varies from person to person. Just bury him. I wonder whose paying for all this? The city probably. Hopefully he wanted to be buried by his mother.

Yes, the city is probably paying for it. Maybe the same city that hired those four criminal officers.

Hello. Former boxer Floyd Mayweather has picked up any and all expenses related to the funeral. No public money was used.
 
🤟 Hey, I tried. But some people can't stop being in a state of denial.
The pattern is the same with any argument; Deflection and denial . If that doesn’t work they lie. If this is pointed out to them they start accusing you of personal attacks. Debating with these types of people is senseless. They refuse to see past their own beliefs which have nothing to do with facts or details and everything to do with their own personal feelings.
 
The pattern is the same with any argument; Deflection and denial . If that doesn’t work they lie. If this is pointed out to them they start accusing you of personal attacks. Debating with these types of people is senseless. They refuse to see past their own beliefs which have nothing to do with facts or details and everything to do with their own personal feelings.

You had given RGP plenty of facts-based arguments, but the minute you mentioned the word "feelings" he pounced on that and made it an opportunity to paint you as a person who only argues based on emotions. It's an old and tired tactic that's very disrespectful. Sorry you had to go through that.
 
You had given RGP plenty of facts-based arguments, but the minute you mentioned the word "feelings" he pounced on that and made it an opportunity to paint you as a person who only argues based on emotions. It's an old and tired tactic that's very disrespectful. Sorry you had to go through that.
Thank you. I wasn’t sure if anyone else noticed that. I gave plenty of fact based arguments which were ignored.
Exactly. It hasn’t been proven that he was using counterfeit money. Apparently these were kids who made the ‘assumption’ that it was counterfeit and called the police and store owner.

Floyd and the police officer used to work as security guards at the same nightclub last year. Maybe this cop had a personal vendetta against Floyd for reasons unbeknown to any of us.

What surprises me most about this entire thread are the people who keep trying to justify the barbaric treatment of this man.

At first it was that he shouldn’t have resisted arrest. He didn’t. There’s plenty of video footage to prove this from various sources. Since they didn’t like that answer they claimed that video could have been docked or fixed. Not if all the video(S) match up.

Then it was asked if he actually said he couldn’t breathe. Yes ! Fifteen times. Then it was suggested that nobody else saw this. Yes! The videos show many onlookers saying it. Then it was stated that if he can talk , he can breathe. How do they know? Do they have personal experience being choked to death? According to professionals people can still mumble things while being choked and clearly he was. He died from it.

Then there was the comments that he fell while being transported to the ambulance. He was already dead so not sure how that is even relevant.

At first they said they’d wait to find out the autopsy report so a private one was done by the family. Since that could be bias they wanted to wait for the one done by the government. The results were the same.

Then they said they ‘d wait until it was investigated by the proper authorities so it was and the police officer was at first arrested with manslaughter and third degree murder which got upgraded to second degree murder.

Then they said the policeman was just using proper procedure so the actual manual was shown as well as information proving he didn’t use proper procedure. ALL the evidence proves that which is why there is such outrage and arrests made.

Then when all else fails they fall back to the fact that he was a criminal and was using counterfeit money. They don’t know that. None of us do. For all we know this could have been a huge lie and we won’t ever know.

Then they looked up his background and discover he’s been to jail and done his time for the crimes he committed which has nothing to do with him getting murdered. He did his time. It’s irrelevant what he’s done in the past especially if he’s already been punished for it.

Now since there’s nothing else to condemn him for , they throw in the fact that if this was a white person, it wouldn’t have even made the news.
No! Probably not because the white person would have still been alive. It’s a proven fact that black people ARE discriminated against and always have been. A black person is 20 times more likely to get shot at and killed for things done that a white person doing the same thing, wouldn’t.

Just look at the man who got hunted down and shot like a dangerous wild animal by vigilantes while he was jogging. The reason: he stopped at a construction site to have a look at what was being built. There were cameras there to show he didn’t do a thing wrong. He didn’t steal, he didn’t vandalize or write graffiti on the walls and the owner didn’t care and refused to press charges knowing full well that the man did nothing wrong. Oddly enough THAT in itself caused chaos amongst the racists who were just out for blood. Black blood.

If a white person stopped at a construction site to causally glance at the unfinished building which had no doors or windows, would they have been hunted down and killed while they were out jogging? Of course not? Even when the police were called by these vigilantes about this apparent trespassing, they didn’t care; especially once the discovered there was no break in and nothing stolen.

If it were a white personal suspected of using counterfeit money, would they be tracked down and murdered? We don’t even know it was counterfeit money or just an excuse to cause trouble when there wasn’t any just like the black man jogging. If he was that guilty he probably wouldn’t be out jogging and if Floyd was that guilty he probably wouldn’t be sitting in his car.

Then there’s the point made that on lookers never called the police while they witnessed a man get murdered. Perhaps like the rest of us, nobody knew he was getting murdered until it was too late. Secondly there were three other cops right there. Why didn’t they stop him? Plus who is going to believe someone calling the police saying that four police officers are trying to murder a man?

It’s mind boggling that a man jogging who gets hunted down by vigilantes, shot and killed and a man who supposedly gets suspected of passing off counterfeit money who gets brutally murdered while under arrest, that the focus is on: what did they do to deserve it. These two were murdered for petty , possibly fabricated crimes yet they get scrutinized while the murderers are justified for their actions. It’s truly sickening.
 
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The pattern is the same with any argument; Deflection and denial . If that doesn’t work they lie. If this is pointed out to them they start accusing you of personal attacks. Debating with these types of people is senseless. They refuse to see past their own beliefs which have nothing to do with facts or details and everything to do with their own personal feelings.


Right back at'cha.......
 
You had given RGP plenty of facts-based arguments, but the minute you mentioned the word "feelings" he pounced on that and made it an opportunity to paint you as a person who only argues based on emotions. It's an old and tired tactic that's very disrespectful. Sorry you had to go through that.


Another lie , I never said she argues based only on emotion, I said emotion did not belong IMO in the original topic argument.
 

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