Be honest....Are you secretly doubting the bible?

I have a very strong faith and am very glad I do but it didn't come to me through childhood. My mother was Christian but not truly church going and I was diehard atheist in my teens . It was in my early twenties that I started to think about it. I had a close friend who had a strong faith and she seemed to have something that I wanted, a kind of peace is the only way I can explain it. She never at ay time tried to push her religion on me but I gradually found myself changing to her way of thinking about a few things, not religion based. Eventually I started to get curious about her faith , I read and investigated then a couple of years later for reasons I cannot explain I found myself wanting to go to a midnight service at the local church, I went , it was packed with standing room at the back mostly with couples. Way down towards the front I saw one empty aisle seat, I sat down and someone reached for my hand, sitting next to me was my friend . I have no explanation for this at all but it happened. After that I went regularly.

My faith has taken me through so much over the years, I cannot imagine my life without it.
 

My thoughts in blue.

AZ Jim said:
Is there doubt in your mind about the Jesus story, virgin birth, heaven, hell, are you afraid you might pay later for your TRUE feelings, doubts?
I do not doubt the Christian stories about the birth of Christ because I, along with many Christians and other readers of the bible, regard them a mythological stories, designed to recall certain OT myths and prophesies. Nor do I doubt that Jesus existed as a real man in the historical period described in the nativity stories.

Heaven and hell are not physical places in my mind but when I say that I am living in heaven or hell on this earth, I'm pretty sure most people know what I mean. Rather than worry about reward of punishment after death I am much more interested in helping to create the Kingdom of Heaven on earth. This is not the Christian equivalent of a caliphate. It is a space, a sanctuary, where peace, love and harmony are more important than wealth, power and prestige. You can't do this by yourself - it must be achieved by a community, whether small or large. It can be found in a friendship, a family, a workplace or occasionally, a nation.

I am well into my 4th quarter of life and I would love to have faith but having spent a lot of time as a youth trying to find faith in many churches, I have become convinced that there is no hereafter for me or, regrettably anyone else. I will die with no hope of anything but that which I had before my birth........nothing.

You don't have to go looking for faith, which by the way is very different a set of beliefs. Faith is an intrinsic quality of humankind. It is expressed in different ways depending on the values of the individuals. Some place their faith in organised religion, others in a well ordered society characterised by law and order. Others place their faith in symbols of safety and security such as money in the bank and measurable assets acquired over a lifetime. For others, their faith is in themselves, in their power and capacity to control their own destiny. IMO, these are the most deluded people of all because sooner or later we all discover our feet of clay. Jesus urged his followers to place their faith in the infinite - God - and in the sublime - love. Love for ourselves because flawed as we are, we are lovable and forgiven. Love of our neighbours with whom we share the planet.

In this last quarter of your life, AZ, I would recommend that you stop tormenting yourself with fears of what lies beyond the curtain and spend a little time each day in peaceful reflection. Think about all of the good things in your life and let gratitude fill your heart. If you wish, express that gratitude in words but it is enough to feel it. Then, not necessarily at the same time let your regrets surface and spend some time with the feelings that they evoke. Find some way to lay them aside because they are of the past and cannot be undone. Your emotional burdens can be removed when you realise that you are but a frail human who makes mistakes and behaves badly at times. If necessary make a symbolic gesture. I did that when I laid a flower on my uncle's grave in Singapore to atone for an estrangement with my grandmother. I walked away healed of a spiritual wound in my heart. Forgiveness comes when you forgive yourself.

Then get on with living your remaining days with faith in your heart that all will be well and waste no worry on the subject of mortality/immortality.

Life is now. Hope is now. Love is now. I believe that this is the important message of the Christmas nativity narratives and the trimmings - angels, shepherds, wise men, a stable, virgin birth - should not be allowed to distract from the core message to mankind - Peace on earth. Goodwill to all men.
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AZ Jim said:
Is there doubt in your mind about the Jesus story, virgin birth, heaven, hell, are you afraid you might pay later for your TRUE feelings, doubts? I am well into my 4th quarter of life and I would love to have faith but having spent a lot of time as a youth trying to find faith in many churches, I have become convinced that there is no hereafter for me or, regrettably anyone else. I will die with no hope of anything but that which I had before my birth........nothing.
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I think the same.
 

Warrigal said:
Life is now. Hope is now. Love is now. I believe that this is the important message of the Christmas nativity narratives and the trimmings - angels, shepherds, wise men, a stable, virgin birth - should not be allowed to distract from the core message to mankind - Peace on earth. Goodwill to all men.
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Well said Warrigal.
 
I've doubted the bible since Sunday school when I was very young. The instructor would read some passages and relate all this abstract stuff to the story. I would be raising my hand with a zillion questions with no answer. Sorry to screw with your class lady...But on the other paw I envy some of the women at my last job. Praise the Lawd 100% and it was beautiful to watch. This one woman Marie would sing gospel in the restroom. She had a lovely voice, I'm serious. Some of these women believed on such a deep level.

But no the bible never did anything for me personally. IMHO whatever you call your holy book...The Bible, The Koran, The Torah, something else...or a faith that doesn't have a printed reference guide. Whatever works for the individual ya know?
 
Nice reply, Warri.

Personally, having spent a lot of my life considering all the possibilities and having spent time studying metaphysics, I believe that I am too small and stupid to ever know the answer while I'm stuck in this meat shell.
 
The bottom line is whatever gives an individual comfort. It's like trying to answer the question " Did G-d create people or did people create G-d?". I was raised Presbyterian and hearing familiar hymns instantly makes me feel warm and happy. Reading Rabbi Kushner can make me feel warm and happy. I just get grumpy with people who feel they know the only "true" faith, likewise those who don't believe in anything and try to push that belief on others...
 
A lady that I knew said her golden rule was "You don't preach to me and I don't preach to you". It makes sense to me.
 
Of course I "doubt" the Bible; in fact, I disbelieve most of it. It is astonishing to me that anyone would believe anything just because someone else told them they must believe it. Without proof, it's all just stories.

For those who believe in God, surely they must also believe that God gave us a brain with the expectation that we would use it.
 
For those who believe in God, surely they must also believe that God gave us a brain with the expectation that we would use it.
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No argument here. Except that humanity did need to advance far enough to learn how to use our brains. Philosophers and theologians have always been with us since the days of Ancient Athens but the Enlightenment has yet to touch large sections of humankind.
 
I have absolutely no doubts about the Bible. It's a partial history, it's a repository of some very sound morality, it has rules that changed over several thousand years as circumstances changed, but as a record of creation to the existence of any format of afterlife it's a load of superstitious nonsense that has been used to control people.

There is also the question about the validity of the KJV, the source of the contents were decided at the council of Nicea when the collapsing Roman Empire was replaced by the Romans Catholic Church, a thing that has as much relevance and authenticity to Christianity as per the reported life and teachings of Jesus as a fish does to a bird.

Do I have doubts about the validity of the Bible as a record of life, the universe, and everything?

No doubts at all.

Its a load of dingoes kidneys.
 
Falcon said:
Not that it matters, but I believe that it was Lenin who said, "God did not make man; Man made God."
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That's not such a clever thought. At the age of seventeen, without ever having read anything that Lenin wrote or thought, I came up with the same idea except that I used the words 'create' and 'created' rather than 'make' and 'made'.

I thought that I was exceptionally clever to have worked this out for myself. The arrogance of youth.
I held to this idea until much later when I came face to face with mystery.
 
I am a Christian who tends to take what the bible teaches with a grain of salt. What I doubt more are the people who profess to be "good: Christians but use the bible as a reason to hate. They pick and choose what they will follow. I am including with this response a scene from the West Wing where the President does a good job at shooting down a self-righteous person, citing chapter and verse of what the bible teaches. I was discussing this argument with a co-worker who is much more conservative and his response seemed to be that it is OK to pick and choose which of God's laws to follow...because some were in Old testament and some in new. I did not understand his reasoning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD52OlkKfNs
 
I believe that the Bible is history and stories, written by people who lived a very long time ago, through their eyes. Was it inspired by God, or some higher being? Maybe. I think a lot of our thoughts could be inspired by a Creator. Or maybe not. I think there is an innate belief in a higher power that is perhaps part of an old memory of sorts.

I think organized religion is great for the fellowship and sense of belonging it provides. I don't think it is a prerequisite to an afterlife. In any case, while I think there is something after death, I don't think it is anything our brains can imagine. So much of what people believed in Biblical times and what we believe in our own time is based on "constants", the things we "know" to be true, that we understand as true. But scientists have demonstrated that even something as constant as the passage of time isn't really a given. Einstein's theory of Relativity and time dilution have shown that the further we get away from the Earth, the more time slows down, or at least changes.

http://www.businessinsider.com/do-astronauts-age-slower-than-people-on-earth-2015-8

So 7 days in Earth time could potentially be millions of years way out in space. The concept of time and space being the same is something I certainly can't wrap my mind around, but it leads me to believe there are a lot more possibilities out there than my Earthly brain can imagine. Maybe even an afterlife. I still feel the love and influence of family members that have passed. Is it my imagination or wishful thinking? That is certainly possible. But certainty is something I gave up on some time ago, around the time I stopped believing that 5 minutes was an absolute, no matter where you were. Imagining an afterlife is no more unimaginable than understanding that the passage of time a billion miles from Earth is very different than it is here.

Do I believe that God is a guy in white robes who stands on mountaintops proclaiming rules and laws? No. I believe that God is incomprehensible to our Earthly minds. A superpower for lack of a better word. I believe that love is closely tied to God because I think it is one of the most powerful emotions we have and I believe it far supercedes our Earthly bodies.

So I do believe in an "after". I do. What it will be, I can't conceive. Do I believe in a higher power? I do. I don't think that all that "Is" happened just by accident.
 
I am Catholic and I believe deeply that there is a God. I was never a reader of the Bible, and after all the horrible actions and cover ups of the Catholic Clergy I no longer attend Church like I did before. Even with all that I still believe in God and the afterlife. I have had quite a few things in my life that make me Believe that. One example I can mention was when my sister and I went to see James Van Praagh. There were over 300 people in the audience. He looked at me and my sister and said an Elderly man was there to talk to us. He said the man had passed away after leg surgery. My sister and I didn't move or say a word. He then said "The man is your Dad and he said that your Mother's name is Elizabeth and she loves to go to Bingo.(which was true) He also said that my Dad mentioned playing word games with me everyday." which was true. My Dad and I played Cryptograms everyday. We just sat there frozen. All he said was true. There wasn't any way he could have known the things he told us. We hadn't spoken to anyone in the audience. He said a lot more and it related to my sister and me. I am still amazed at how he knew so many things , so that caused me to believe more in an afterlife.
 
Butterfly said:
I am a practicing Lutheran and find comfort in my faith. I don't preach at others and don't want them preaching at me.
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I go this route also; even though I do not attend a church, I am Lutheran by upbringing(grandson of Lutheran minister) and I worship God in my heart, but do not attempt persuade others to change their beliefs.

That said, if someone wants to discuss religion, I'm willing to share how my faith works in my life, and listen to their position as well.
 
No doubt the bible is childish nonsense. If talking snakes, burning bushes, transubstantiation, or parted seas doesn't raise a B.S. alarm-think about the "resurrection". Christianity 'stands or falls' upon the spurious dogma that the dead can return to life. In my studies of comparative religion, none was found to be as juvenile and utterly unbelievable as Christian theology. Mormonism and Islam are close...and of course in many respects imitate Christian theology.
 
Sunny said:
I hate to burst your bubble, but it sounds like you came under the spell of a very clever con man.
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I've thought about this from when we saw him 10yrs ago. It wasn't that we even answered anything he said to give him clues. With so many women's names how did he come up with Elizabeth ? Another thing he said was that our father wanted us to know he was with the big M. That was what he called my sisters husband as a joke and her husband had passed away 2 months before we went to see Van Praagh. It still boggles my mind trying to figure out how he made those on target things. I'm sure sooner or later when I pass I'll know the truth !
 
"Cold reading" and the 'shotgun' effect...so many of these stratagems have been used the huckster knows which ones to employ for the highest probability of a response. As with Jane Dixon, Brown, or Nostradamus, there is NEVER a conjunction of dates, places, and persons.
 

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