If you know god, then what?

[Warrigal]

understand and I pretty much agree. You either know him or you do not. I know him, he knows me. I stray, I will suffer but he is there for me. I try everyday. I hear him. He talks to me in verse. He questions me thru questions. He is my base, my grounding. My guide thru my life.

Couldn't have explained my relationship with the divine any better than that.

 

[MACKTEXAS]

(Just asking for a friend)

Although the Bible is subject to wide interpretation, Christian theology generally agrees that all the dead will be resurrected to face a final judgment.

An omniscient God could resurrect a body that had been cremated as easily as one that had turned to dust over time after a normal burial, or as easily as he created the first human from dust.

The "flames of hell" are seen by some teologians as a metaphor for an eternal joyless existence, and "streets of gold", rather than being literal, may symbolize the beauty, serenity, and perfection of heaven.

 

[bobcat]

Although the Bible is subject to wide interpretation, Christian theology generally agrees that all the dead will be resurrected to face a final judgment.

An omniscient God could resurrect a body that had been cremated as easily as one that had turned to dust over time after a normal burial, or as easily as he created the first human from dust.

The "flames of hell" are seen by some teologians as a metaphor for an eternal joyless existence, and "streets of gold", rather than being literal, may symbolize the beauty, serenity, and perfection of heaven.

I guess the hard part to understand would be this:

If Hell means just being dead, and if you're already dead, then why resurrect someone only to let them die after judgment.
If Hell means a fiery death, then you have already done that if you're cremated, so why repeat it.
If Hell means an eternal torment, what would be the point. There is nothing to be gained from tormenting people forever.
If Hell means an eternal separation from God, then dead sinners already have that.
So, as you can see, it gets a bit confusing.

 

[astralcat]

People are egotistical enough to believe that they, imperfect beings, actually know GOD, a perfect being. Most people know OF God, through teachings, study of theology, but how can anyone actually say they know GOD – we don’t really even know our very best friend. All we know are concepts taught to us and these concepts come from man and his slant on what we should believe.

If you really want to know GOD, then go out in nature, study and observe, give up all the ridiculous things we are all attached to (money being the worst). Reset your life and then maybe you will know some of God. I do believe that something exists beyond this life. Whether there is one God or many Gods, doesn’t matter. What matters is that we ascend spiritually as much as we can while living on this earth.

 

[VaughanJB]

God isn't statisical. You can't prove BUT you can't disprove. So what did you just say that provides any information????

I directly responded to a post. I also mentioned that a God is unfalsifiable. But that cuts both ways. On the one hand, it doesn't mean he does exist. On the other, it doesn't means he does. Which side of the fence you fall is up to you. Such a statement renders belief in line with an opinion. Your opinion is either that he does, or does not, exist.

I'm not a religious scholar (by a wide mark). However, the idea that a God would in any way punish someone for not believing just sounds mean. God will have been well aware of the circumstances of ones life, so ought to be able to understand why belief doesn't exist. God has never spoken to me, but the trope seems to be that it must somehow be MY fault. How come? If God proved himself to me, I'd believe. Wouldn't any rationale person? I've simply seen no evidence.

I also don't think the excuses made are reasonable. Free will seems to simply be an excuse believers use to excuse the fact that their God appears mean spirited. If something goes wrong, it can't possibly be God's fault. Must be that whole "free will" thing. Free Will Is a Get out of Jail Free card, imo.

I won't even start with the idea we're all born with the original sin.

All that said - I've no issue with your own belief. I don't think less of you, and I don't think more. I simply think you're entitled to that opinion.

 

[bobcat]

People are egotistical enough to believe that they, imperfect beings, actually know GOD, a perfect being. Most people know OF God, through teachings, study of theology, but how can anyone actually say they know GOD – we don’t really even know our very best friend. All we know are concepts taught to us and these concepts come from man and his slant on what we should believe.

If you really want to know GOD, then go out in nature, study and observe, give up all the ridiculous things we are all attached to (money being the worst). Reset your life and then maybe you will know some of God. I do believe that something exists beyond this life. Whether there is one God or many Gods, doesn’t matter. What matters is that we ascend spiritually as much as we can while living on this earth.

Agreed. I have enjoyed many aspects of Ecospirituality. It is allowing the mind to sync up with nature in a meditative state. Quite an experience.

 

[MACKTEXAS]

I guess the hard part to understand would be this:

If Hell means just being dead, and if you're already dead, then why resurrect someone only to let them die after judgment.
If Hell means a fiery death, then you have already done that if you're cremated, so why repeat it.
If Hell means an eternal torment, what would be the point. There is nothing to be gained from tormenting people forever.
If Hell means an eternal separation from God, then dead sinners already have that.
So, as you can see, it gets a bit confusing.

Bobcat, if I present a certain theological explanation for one question, I get 4 more questios (as seen from your list above). I'm not criticising you, because they are legitimate questions, but I didn't "make the rules," (if you will) nor do I have all the answers to Bible questions, and never claimed to.

But as to this part you wrote: "If Hell means an eternal separation from God, then dead sinners already have that" - yes - some Christians believe that death forever is solely what the Bible means by eternal separation from God. That isn't to say I either agree or disagree with them.

I could spend an hour or two looking into all those questions, then compose a new post, which would invariably lead to more questions - if not from you, from others. I choose not to spend endless amounts of my time in that manner, since I don't recall any examples where subjects of this nature get resolved with ongoing debate - either among members of this forum, or members of the Christian community as a whole.

 

[WheatenLover]

The "flames of hell" are seen by some teologians as a metaphor for an eternal joyless existence, and "streets of gold", rather than being literal, may symbolize the beauty, serenity, and perfection of heaven.

Ever since I was a child, I've wondered if heaven is boring. When very young, I thought dead people became angels (theologically unsound) and sat on clouds all the time (very wettifying), singing hymns. I don't know where I got that idea, since the only church my sister and I attended was in my bedroom on Sunday mornings, with a children's Bible, a project that didn't last long. We did go to Sunday school three times once. Coloring pictures... listening to boring speech, not my thing.

And what about perfection? Isn't that in the eye of the beholder? To me, heaven would be perfect if they had dancing music and dancing, books and reading, many baked goods and eating, many dogs and reveling, and many people to get to know. Also, it could not always be serene, with the music, dogs, and people. Plus with so much beauty right here on earth, why relocate us?

I have met many Christians who think dancing is a sin and who think most really fun music is a sin to listen to. Some books are a sin to read. Some people are a sin just to talk to! Believe it or not, I met some of these people while I was in Bible college. Turns out that I didn't like that, and did not become a missionary after all. Must point out that for a very long time, I have not agreed with the idea of being a missionary.

As for an eternal joyless existence, many folks find that here on earth. I've heard people say they don't believe in hell because it is here on earth.

 

[MACKTEXAS]

Ever since I was a child, I've wondered if heaven is boring. When very young, I thought dead people became angels (theologically unsound) and sat on clouds all the time (very wettifying), singing hymns. I don't know where I got that idea, since the only church my sister and I attended was in my bedroom on Sunday mornings, with a children's Bible, a project that didn't last long. We did go to Sunday school three times once. Coloring pictures... listening to boring speech, not my thing.

And what about perfection? Isn't that in the eye of the beholder? To me, heaven would be perfect if they had dancing music and dancing, books and reading, many baked goods and eating, many dogs and reveling, and many people to get to know. Also, it could not always be serene, with the music, dogs, and people. Plus with so much beauty right here on earth, why relocate us?

I have met many Christians who think dancing is a sin and who think most really fun music is a sin to listen to. Some books are a sin to read. Some people are a sin just to talk to! Believe it or not, I met some of these people while I was in Bible college. Turns out that I didn't like that, and did not become a missionary after all. Must point out that for a very long time, I have not agreed with the idea of being a missionary.

As for an eternal joyless existence, many folks find that here on earth. I've heard people say they don't believe in hell because it is here on earth.

No one finds all the answers, but I hope you have, or will come to peace with those thoughts. I can't imagine a Heaven that would be boring.

 

[gruntlabor]

Although the Bible is subject to wide interpretation, Christian theology generally agrees that all the dead will be resurrected to face a final judgment.

An omniscient God could resurrect a body that had been cremated as easily as one that had turned to dust over time after a normal burial, or as easily as he created the first human from dust.

The "flames of hell" are seen by some teologians as a metaphor for an eternal joyless existence, and "streets of gold", rather than being literal, may symbolize the beauty, serenity, and perfection of heaven.

With no formal teaching beyond Sunday school, my impressions are a little different.
1) Those who were told but would not listen are dead or will die, and will remain dead.
2) God and his angels live in the kingdom of heaven.
3) The dead who were saved will be resurrected to live on the earth with the living faithful.
** Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. --Matthew 5:5 **

 

[Nathan]

Just a reminder: even though you think you know, you really don't. But, whatever gives you comfort in the here-and-now can't be discounted.

 

[MarkD]

There is No God.

A Monist can answer that God is all there is throughout the cosmos and in us. To someone with an analytic bent (that used to be me) that won’t do at all. They need parts to work out simple causes and effects. Nothing wrong with that and materialism is just another monism. Materialism works great with science
but you can never give an adequate account of consciousness with nothing but matter.

 

[Warrigal]

Ever since I was a child, I've wondered if heaven is boring. When very young, I thought dead people became angels (theologically unsound) and sat on clouds all the time (very wettifying), singing hymns. I don't know where I got that idea, since the only church my sister and I attended was in my bedroom on Sunday mornings, with a children's Bible, a project that didn't last long. We did go to Sunday school three times once. Coloring pictures... listening to boring speech, not my thing.

And what about perfection? Isn't that in the eye of the beholder? To me, heaven would be perfect if they had dancing music and dancing, books and reading, many baked goods and eating, many dogs and reveling, and many people to get to know. Also, it could not always be serene, with the music, dogs, and people. Plus with so much beauty right here on earth, why relocate us?

I have met many Christians who think dancing is a sin and who think most really fun music is a sin to listen to. Some books are a sin to read. Some people are a sin just to talk to! Believe it or not, I met some of these people while I was in Bible college. Turns out that I didn't like that, and did not become a missionary after all. Must point out that for a very long time, I have not agreed with the idea of being a missionary.

As for an eternal joyless existence, many folks find that here on earth. I've heard people say they don't believe in hell because it is here on earth.

I recommend you look up George Bernard Shaw's 3 act play "Man and Superman". The second act revolves around Don Juan, a woman he had seduced, and her father, all of whom have died and found themselves in Hell. Which of them is elevated to Heaven is counter intuitive. Startling as it seems, it does make sense in a perverse kind of way.

And yes, Shaw posits that Heaven is indeed boring and most people are happier with all of their friends in "the place below".

 

[bobcat]

Bobcat, if I present a certain theological explanation for one question, I get 4 more questios (as seen from your list above). I'm not criticising you, because they are legitimate questions, but I didn't "make the rules," (if you will) nor do I have all the answers to Bible questions, and never claimed to.

But as to this part you wrote: "If Hell means an eternal separation from God, then dead sinners already have that" - yes - some Christians believe that death forever is solely what the Bible means by eternal separation from God. That isn't to say I either agree or disagree with them.

I could spend an hour or two looking into all those questions, then compose a new post, which would invariably lead to more questions - if not from you, from others. I choose not to spend endless amounts of my time in that manner, since I don't recall any examples where subjects of this nature get resolved with ongoing debate - either among members of this forum, or members of the Christian community as a whole.

I understand Mack, and yes there are many unanswered questions. However, I appreciate your honesty here and will respect the desire to abstain. You're a gentleman, as always.