Speakin'a the school shooting

Shalimar said:
By this reasoning alone, never mind the sexual slavery which defined my childhood, I should be a mass murderer several times over. I walk a different path. Yet, on the outside, my childhood did not mirror the horror which lurked within.
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Yes, I understand. I also walk a different path from the horror which lurked within. But, you, above all other people, know full well that people react differently to any event or series of events. Who can say what other factors played a part in keeping us from becoming mass murderers ?

Most kids who are not loved and supervised by their parents do not commit mass murder or go on to commit other types of violent crimes. But enough kids do commit those types of crimes that we should be very concerned about lack of supervision.
 

Traveler said:
Yes, I understand. I also walk a different path from the horror which lurked within. But, you, above all other people, know full well that people react differently to any event or series of events. Who can say what other factors played a part in keeping us from becoming mass murderers ?

Most kids who are not loved and supervised by their parents do not commit mass murder or go on to commit other types of violent crimes. But enough kids do commit those types of crimes that we should be very concerned about lack of supervision.
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While I do believe in appropriate parenting, I feel it is simplistic to draw a parallel between mass shootings and modern parenting. Fact is, we don’t really know why these kids snap.
 
Shalimar said:
While I do believe in appropriate parenting, I feel it is simplistic to draw a parallel between mass shootings and modern parenting. Fact is, we don’t really know why these kids snap.
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True enough. We do not know with 100% certainty. But something does cause the kid to snap. Is it so unreasonable to consider lack of proper parental supervision, as one very important determining factor ?
 

"If you liberals keep getting your way, we're all gonna hear one loud flush. The sound of the U.S. of A. going straight down the terlet." - Archie Bunker, about 45 years ago
 
Smiling Jane said:
Apparently we have a choice of being cultural Marxists or cultureless Fascists. I know which side I'm taking.
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We have a clear choice.

Option #1: If it feels good, do it. Anything goes. Get as weird as we like. No morality. No discipline. No concern for anyone except ourselves

Option #2: Teach delayed gratification, manners, work ethic, moral strength, self discipline, fortitude and respect.

I know which option I believe in.
 
We have a clear choice.

Option #1: If it feels good, do it. Anything goes. Get as weird as we like. No morality. No discipline. No concern for anyone except ourselves

Option #2: Teach delayed gratification, manners, work ethic, moral strength, self discipline, fortitude and respect.

I know which option I believe in.
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Logical fallacy: false dichotomy.
 
Traveler said:
We have a clear choice.

Option #1: If it feels good, do it. Anything goes. Get as weird as we like. No morality. No discipline. No concern for anyone except ourselves

Option #2: Teach delayed gratification, manners, work ethic, moral strength, self discipline, fortitude and respect.

I know which option I believe in.
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Good grief. You really think that's the definition of Marxism and fascism? The educational system in this country has let us down terribly.
 
Traveler said:
I keep repeating that there is something fundamentally wrong with the "newer" ways of raising a family.

Where were the parents of the florida killer ? Why did they not see what was happening under their very noses ?
Why were they not more involved with him?

Time and again we hear that the parents, of the various school shooters, were "shocked".

If the parents had been much more involved with their own children, and had been loving, concerned, active parents, these killings would never have happened.
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His parents were dead.
 
Traveler said:
We have a clear choice.

Option #1: If it feels good, do it. Anything goes. Get as weird as we like. No morality. No discipline. No concern for anyone except ourselves

Option #2: Teach delayed gratification, manners, work ethic, moral strength, self discipline, fortitude and respect.

I know which option I believe in.
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I believe in option #2, I raised my children to believe likewise. However, I am able to do so and still remain a liberal without experiencing any cognitive dissonance whatsoever. Being an honourable person speaks to character, it is not automatically tied to one’s political affiliation. I have seen the deleterious effects of an overly regimented lifestyle. Every bit as damaging as one wthout social responsibility. In fact, an overly rigid mindset all too often lends itself to fanaticism. That is scary.
 
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Feb 23, 2018

Some Stockton students become violent during anti-gun protest

" STOCKTON, Calif. (KCRA) —

At least five students were arrested Friday as hundreds of others from several Stockton high schools walked out of classes in protest of gun violence after last week's deadly shooting at a Florida high school.

Students at Stagg, Edison, Chavez, Lincoln and Village Oak high schools were walking along streets, creating traffic problems in the area as streets were blocked off.

Stockton police said some students threw rocks and damaged both police and citizen vehicles.

Five arrests were made, including charges of battery on an officer, resisting arrest, taking an officer's baton and vandalizing vehicles, including patrol vehicles, Stockton police said.

Those arrested ranged from 14-years-old to 18-years-old. The 18-year-old was booked into the San Joaquin County Jail and the juveniles were cited to their parents, according to Stockton Police. "

more at link

http://www.kcra.com/article/some-stockton-students-become-violent-during-anti-gun-protest-1/18698723
 
Just to be clear, I referenced a logical fallacy in this thread. It didn't matter to me who wrote it. It could have been the tooth fairy for all I care.

The logical fallacy of the false dichotomy (or dilemma) is when there are two options and the thinking process is that the choice has to be either all one or all the other. Real life doesn't work that way. And if a person really thinks that way, it makes life very hard, for oneself and other people. It's faulty thinking, period.
 
Shalimar said:
Unreasonable, no, not enough data yet to calculate the probability of a causal link to the shootings.
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Some kids who are odd are constantly shunned by their peers. Who knows how long someone can take constant rejection and alienation before snapping? I think the movie Carrie, while utter nonsense, was pointing to this emotional pain.

It was certainly the case with Martin Bryant, the Port Arthur shooter. He certainly was a very isolated and lonely individual. He had money and liked to fly a lot because the person seated next to him could not get away for the duration of the flight.
 
Warrigal said:
Some kids who are odd are constantly shunned by their peers. Who knows how long someone can take constant rejection and alienation before snapping? I think the movie Carrie, while utter nonsense, was pointing to this emotional pain.

It was certainly the case with Martin Bryant, the Port Arthur shooter. He certainly was a very isolated and lonely individual. He had money and liked to fly a lot because the person seated next to him could not get away for the duration of the flight.
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I hear you, and a firm link may yet be made.
 
Most of the people who commit mass murder by gun are either shot or commit suicide.
Capturing them alive gives us the best chance to learn more about how they came to this point.

An opportunity has been presented. I hope it is followed up.
 
Olivia said:
Just to be clear, I referenced a logical fallacy in this thread. It didn't matter to me who wrote it. It could have been the tooth fairy for all I care.

The logical fallacy of the false dichotomy (or dilemma) is when there are two options and the thinking process is that the choice has to be either all one or all the other. Real life doesn't work that way. And if a person really thinks that way, it makes life very hard, for oneself and other people. It's faulty thinking, period.
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You couldn't be more wrong.

A recovering alcoholic is either clean and sober or he/she isn't. There is no middle ground

A women is either pregnant or she is not. There is no such thing as a little bit pregnant. Again, no middle ground.

A man either respects women or he doesn't. No middle ground.

A person is either a liar or not. There is no middle ground

A person is either a racist or he is not. Once again, no middle ground.

A person is either honest or he is not. No middle ground.

An Amish person either follows the dictates of his/her religion or not. If he/she does not, they are shunned. No middle ground.

I could cite a hundred examples of situations that are either black or white.

In the case of an Amish person, IT IS ALL OR NOTHING. And, it does not make the lives of the Amish very hard for themselves, or other people.
Their thinking is certainly not faulty, period.
 
During my lengthy career, one of the lessons which has repeatedly smacked me across the face is this, human beings are complex, the human mind incredibly so. One size fits all answers rarely work because of this. Black and white thinking may appear to be applicable in small doses when dealing with some issues, but, overall, it almost invariably
fails to deal with the whole problem. Complex problems require complex solutions. We are not Pavlov’s dogs. Critical thinking

begets questions, questions beget the capacity to think independently, often, out of this process, a new mindset appears, one which embraces tolerance and moderation, rather than a rigid groupthink, my way or the highway philosophy. It takes courage to leave the herdmind behind and risk thinking for oneself. That way can lead to enlightenment if one pursues it with a loving heart, and an earnest desire to grow, and to serve humanity. My lengthy sojourn in Hell taught me that compassion is the greatest force of all.
 

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